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First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

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Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#81

Post by arctangent »

wastedhours wrote: post #74
arctangent wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a hedge bet.

I don't claim to understand logistics - but will we see companies pay for slots on the trains as insurance, but not use them if everything's fine? Train company gets a deposit, shipper gets an insurance policy for semi-important payloads?

I'm fairly sure that such an approach plays a part in what would be a mixed strategy approach to mitigating risk.

Other ingredients to the mix would include insurance and complex financial trades (e.g. derivatives).

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#82

Post by wastedhours »

arctangent wrote: post #81
wastedhours wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't claim to understand logistics - but will we see companies pay for slots on the trains as insurance, but not use them if everything's fine? Train company gets a deposit, shipper gets an insurance policy for semi-important payloads?

I'm fairly sure that such an approach plays a part in what would be a mixed strategy approach to mitigating risk. Other ingredients to the mix would include insurance and complex financial trades (e.g. derivatives).

Is there a second-market in freight spots already? As in, I'm guessing major manufacturers need to pre-buy to a certain degree and then might not use them all (or are the shipping companies so over the barrel at the moment that it's a non-issue?)

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#83

Post by SixSigma »

willyt wrote: post #80
SixSigma wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollution - Air cargo - 0.8063 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Truck - 0.1693 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Train - 0.1048 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Sea freight - 0.0403 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile So I see this competing with air freight, not sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_transp...

But the ship route China London is a lot more miles than the train.

18 days train vs 30 days ships.

No-one I know in logistics is very worried about cost per container, especially with the massive over capacity in shipping.

When the iPhone launched they brought them by 747, I think this train would have been a viable option.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#84

Post by torrent-of-ions »

willyt wrote: post #80
SixSigma wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollution - Air cargo - 0.8063 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Truck - 0.1693 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Train - 0.1048 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Sea freight - 0.0403 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile So I see this competing with air freight, not sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_transp...

But the ship route China London is a lot more miles than the train.

I would have thought so too, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have any figures on this?

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#85

Post by Ericson2314 »

jakozaur wrote: post #73
jakozaur wrote: post #26

Some more detail articles about current China Europe regular train connection (actually it goes weekly to Poland): http://postandparcel.info/56547/news/innovation/dhl-launches... http://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/06/28/what-the-... It make sense for goods that sending them by air is too expensive, but they are too time sensitive to send them by ship. It takes a day by plane, 14 days by train, 45 days by th…

Some price estimates: (very crude, but shows magnitude of price) Rail is 4 times more expensive than by sea. Air is at least 6 times more expensive than rail, but can be even 18 times more expensive if payload is heavy. Cost of shipping 40′ HC container: - by sea: $1,600 - by train: $6,800 - by air, light, so you pay for volume: 4.6 USD / kg, 40 ft got volume 67.7 m3 * 143 kg / m3 ~= 9 tons, $41,400 - by air, heavy,…

Rail would seem in principle to far and away be the most efficient, so I hope these prices change to reflect that.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#86

Post by SixSigma »

cbr wrote: post #79
SixSigma wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollution - Air cargo - 0.8063 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Truck - 0.1693 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Train - 0.1048 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile - Sea freight - 0.0403 kg of CO2 per Ton-Mile So I see this competing with air freight, not sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_transp...

Most of the people making these decisions are primarily concerned with cost and time and not pollution, so what determines whether this will be successful is primarily cost vs time.

The people I know in freight barely think about cost, it's all about time. But you're right - not pollution.

Some regulators might start offering incentives in that regard though.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#88

Post by mtw »

What I found interesting is that it still takes 15 days for a freight train to do the journey.

With the recent $500 billion plan for high-speed rail network in China, surely it also makes sense to modernize this AsiaEurope track? For example building a dedicated track with standard gauge in Kazakhastan, Russia, or developing a more powerful locomotive dedicated to this.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#89

Post by mikeash »

SixSigma wrote: post #86
cbr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the people making these decisions are primarily concerned with cost and time and not pollution, so what determines whether this will be successful is primarily cost vs time.

The people I know in freight barely think about cost, it's all about time. But you're right - not pollution. Some regulators might start offering incentives in that regard though.

Do they ever use anything besides air freight? The fact that slower methods get a lot of business suggests a lot of people are thinking about cost over time.

Re: First China-U.K. Freight Train Departs as Xi Seeks to Lift Trade

#90

Post by thecabinet »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #85
jakozaur wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some price estimates: (very crude, but shows magnitude of price) Rail is 4 times more expensive than by sea. Air is at least 6 times more expensive than rail, but can be even 18 times more expensive if payload is heavy. Cost of shipping 40′ HC container: - by sea: $1,600 - by train: $6,800 - by air, light, so you pay for volume: 4.6 USD / kg, 40 ft got volume 67.7 m3 * 143 kg / m3 ~= 9 tons, $41,400 - by air, heavy,…

Rail would seem in principle to far and away be the most efficient, so I hope these prices change to reflect that.

What principle is that? Prices reflect reality, not the other way around.
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