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Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

nytimes.com

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Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#81

Post by d4rti »

draugadrotten wrote: post #35
alkonaut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says? Are some people exempt from the sales tax added? Is it dynamic depdending on the total amount charged?

Tax-free sticker price is good for making you aware how much you are paying for the product and how much goes to the tax man.

Why is this useful? You can argue for both, but to argue for only showing the tax free price is just hiding the price; It's not like you can ask for the tax to be taken off.

In the UK we have a default all included price on items for example in supermarkets, but in wholesale shops targeting businesses prices will be shown as with and without VAT as businesses can reclaim it. Makes perfect sense, reduces cognitive load, makes comparison of prices easier, means the consumer doesn't need to understand the implications of the tax system on every purchase.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#82

Post by lisper »

psyc wrote: post #60
chrisseaton wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems crazy to me that you're doing this as a kind of social service for the waiter or waitress, while helping to withhold owed tax revenue that could be used for other people who may be in need of social services.

Do real, flesh and blood people actually in real life wring their hands over the indeterminate effects of their miniscule mundane daily decisions?

I'm not sure I "wring my hands" over it, but when I make a decision I do tend to think about what would happen if everyone did what I'm about to do.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#83

Post by chris_7 »

ars wrote: post #28
alkonaut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says? Are some people exempt from the sales tax added? Is it dynamic depdending on the total amount charged?

> What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says? It's because cities can have local sales tax, but advertising campaigns are national, or at last wider than a single city. So it's impossible to advertise the final price unless you micro-target a single area. Because of this it became the custom not to include tax on any prices. Unlike Europe there is no sales tax on a nat…

> It's because cities can have local sales tax, but advertising campaigns are national, or at last wider than a single city. So it's impossible to advertise the final price unless you micro-target a single area.

Yeah, but even bodegas and NYC-only restaurants do this.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#84

Post by chris_7 »

alkonaut wrote: post #43
ars wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the point of even having a price sticker if what's charged is more than what it says? It's because cities can have local sales tax, but advertising campaigns are national, or at last wider than a single city. So it's impossible to advertise the final price unless you micro-target a single area. Because of this it became the custom not to include tax on any prices. Unlike Europe there is no sales tax on a nat…

> It's because cities can have local sales tax, but advertising campaigns are national, or at last wider than a single city. So it's impossible to advertise the final price unless you micro-target a single area. Yeah I was thinking about actual price tags on products or store shelves. Not billboards or tv ads etc. Doesn't explain why something would be marked $1.00 and charged $1.10 at the register (for example). I s…

You can generally return a product to an arbitrary store.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#85

Post by alkonaut »

chris_7 wrote: post #84
alkonaut wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's because cities can have local sales tax, but advertising campaigns are national, or at last wider than a single city. So it's impossible to advertise the final price unless you micro-target a single area. Yeah I was thinking about actual price tags on products or store shelves. Not billboards or tv ads etc. Doesn't explain why something would be marked $1.00 and charged $1.10 at the register (for example). I s…

You can generally return a product to an arbitrary store.

With a receipt from the same chain, yes. And on the receipt you always have both the with/without VAT prices listed. So when returning there should be no confusion.

Still doesn't explain what the point would be to display $1.00 on a shelf, if I will be charged $1.10 at the register with VAT.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#86

Post by monort »

wutbrodo wrote: post #56
s_kilk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax money would be spent on nukes, not public services.

You really shouldn't believe whatever you hear: whoever told you that grossly misinformed you. Even if we assume that "spent on nukes" is hyperbole for "spent on the military", the military is 16% of the federal budget, absolutely dwarfed by the rest of the budget (which mostly consists of items fairly described as public services). And that's the federal budget alone: state taxes obviously don't even have _that_ sma…

Imagine you are not required to pay taxes and everything is voluntary. Would you donate to an entity, that spends just 16% of donation on killing people?

Why do you feel different when this entity is your government?

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#87

Post by 55555 »

nish1500 wrote: post #59
musha68k wrote: post #58

Wage slavery is especially rampant in the food and beverage industry where low margins and high competition are the norm. Including "tips" (you could still tip for extraordinary service) as well as sales tax in the price might be the first step towards more transparency and fair pay for everyone involved (owners to waiters) in what essentially amounts to a luxury service anyway.

I am in Thailand now, where the amount you see on the menu is exactly what you pay. I just spent 10 days in New Delhi, India, where they add between 25% and 33% to your bill, before tips, in the name of VAT, Service Tax and Service Charge. It's a world of difference. So much trust is lost.

In many restaurants in Thailand they add 10% + 7% (service charge and VAT) to the prices listed on the menu. However, the menu must disclose this, typically in fine print at the bottom.

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#88

Post by huxley »

wutbrodo wrote: post #56
s_kilk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax money would be spent on nukes, not public services.

You really shouldn't believe whatever you hear: whoever told you that grossly misinformed you. Even if we assume that "spent on nukes" is hyperbole for "spent on the military", the military is 16% of the federal budget, absolutely dwarfed by the rest of the budget (which mostly consists of items fairly described as public services). And that's the federal budget alone: state taxes obviously don't even have _that_ sma…

The US Department of Defense has received about 19% directly and that amount doesn't include defence related spending by other departments nor does it include spending in Iraq and Afghanistan (or other overseas adventures).

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#89

Post by [deleted] »

ikeyany wrote: post #74
gommm wrote: post #57

> Tips are also handled differently in different states, but in New York, by law, they can be pooled and distributed only to “front of house” employees: those who work in the dining room, like waiters, bartenders and backwaiters (formerly known as busboys). That really makes no sense to me. When I go to a restaurant, I value the food a lot more than the service. I've come back again to restaurants where I hated the s…

It makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of a culture that is focused on image and the perception of image. With that point of view in mind, why would you prioritize those working behind the scenes?

[deleted]

Re: Year of Upheaval for Restaurants That Ended Tipping

#90

Post by alkonaut »

musha68k wrote: post #58

Wage slavery is especially rampant in the food and beverage industry where low margins and high competition are the norm. Including "tips" (you could still tip for extraordinary service) as well as sales tax in the price might be the first step towards more transparency and fair pay for everyone involved (owners to waiters) in what essentially amounts to a luxury service anyway.

Paying living wage* for all serving jobs would be a good starting point. It's easier to move to a no-tip equilibrium when it doesn't mean someone has to take a second job.

* meaning e.g. that a single parent can live reasonably well, raise a kid, go on holiday etc.

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