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A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

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Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#81

Post by heisenbit »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #64
dajohnson89 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this issue with the dam was apparent before ISIS, no?

The constant infusion of concrete isn't an emergency measure. It's how the dam was intended to operate. The problem (from the planners' point of view, anyway) isn't that it requires constant grouting, it's that it stopped getting constant grouting.

It was not intended to operate this way when it was built. Maybe there was a plan to fill holes with concrete but never on that scale as was decided later. Note decided later - unclear whether ever enough grouting was done to fill the need. The stoppage of grouting was just another straw on the camel's back.

Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#84

Post by ra1n85 »

impostervt wrote: post #14

Dexter Filkins, the writer of this piece, is also the author of one of the best non-fiction books I've ever read - The Forever War (not the space war book). The Forever War https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307279448/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_OWDy...

Also really enjoyed that book. The stories about the treatment of third country nationals (essentially contractors from countries like the Philippines and India working on US bases) were surprising and saddening.

Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#86

Post by lldata »

A quick calculation of what it would take to replace the dam with solar panels:

According to wikipedia the dam produces 1052MW. Let's call it 1GW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam

According to quora you need about 10000m2 or one 1ha to produce 1MW. So 1000 * 10000m2 = 10km2 to produce 1GW.

I wonder how big the lake is? Could solar panels installed in the drained lake - theoretically - provide the same or more energy than the dam?

Of course energy storage is a major part of water power and it is not taken into account above. On the other hand a decentralized power grid is one of the major advantages of solar (especially in an unstable country) and that is not taken into account either.

Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#87

Post by berntb »

yalogin wrote: post #85

The saddest part of the article is the US tried to blow the dam up during the gulf war. Why? That is as brutal as dropping the nukes on Japan.

Uh, what article are you reading? Or do you think bombing a generator is to "blow up the dam"?

The quote is: "the dam had been built to survive an aerial bombardment. (In fact, during the Gulf War, American jets bombed its generator, but the dam remained intact.)"

(A dam with bad air defense ought to be an easy target, considering all the emphasis the Americans puts into getting through lots of cement -- and that dams were bombed already during WWII.)

Edit: The shocking part was how the US found out about how much the sanctions had damaged the country -- and then poured billions into fixing it. The US politicians might waste even more than my native ones.

Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#88

Post by impostervt »

lldata wrote: post #86

A quick calculation of what it would take to replace the dam with solar panels: According to wikipedia the dam produces 1052MW. Let's call it 1GW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam According to quora you need about 10000m2 or one 1ha to produce 1MW. So 1000 * 10000m2 = 10km2 to produce 1GW. I wonder how big the lake is? Could solar panels installed in the drained lake - theoretically - provide the same or more…

But the damn isn't there just to provide power. Remember back when it was built Iraq exported power, in the form of oil.

It's also there to regulate the flow of the river, which commonly floods the surrounding, crop-growing region.

Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#89

Post by etrevino »

lldata wrote: post #86

A quick calculation of what it would take to replace the dam with solar panels: According to wikipedia the dam produces 1052MW. Let's call it 1GW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosul_Dam According to quora you need about 10000m2 or one 1ha to produce 1MW. So 1000 * 10000m2 = 10km2 to produce 1GW. I wonder how big the lake is? Could solar panels installed in the drained lake - theoretically - provide the same or more…

The problem isn't just one of power. It's also (ironically) flood management. That reservoir allows Iraq to store water from years of plenty (and prevent downstream flooding) for years of drought when that extra water will be needed for farming, drinking, etc.

Re: A bigger problem than ISIS: The Mosul Dam is failing

#90

Post by logicallee »

abduhl wrote: post #52
logicallee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, were you calculating or using (or thinking about, had some train of thought about) this information or did you just happen to notice the mixed units? I mean because I can't picture either one or ten billion cubic feet of water so it's just a very large number to me and I wouldn't notice that difference.

One billion cubic meters is a cubic kilometer - a cube with each side measuring 1km. 11 of these would be a cube with ~2.25 km sides. Or slightly less than a mile and a half per side.

I never thought about the fact that a billion is "just" a thousand times a thousand times a thousand.

So I thought of something I could picture a thousand of - for example millimeters. A thousand mm is just 1 meter, so I can easily see/picture a billion of something (cubic millimeters of air) right in front of me (as 1m x 1m x 1m). Neat!

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