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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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81–90 of 358 posts

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#81

This was appalling and obviously sucked a lot for people who underwent such treatment; however as someone born in USSR I'd say that it was surprisingly humane (hot water not always available) compared to how people were treated in the USSR around the same period. Case in point: Ukrainian Holodomor (genocide by famine) http://www.rferl.org/a/holodomor-ukraine/25174454.html Edit: also, Chechen and Krimean Tatar deporta…

Since these countries (in some form or other) still exist, it's tempting to start making moral comparisons and trying to figure out "which side you should be on". But that's not the most interesting approach, in my opinion. Future historians won't be picking sides, they'll be trying to put it in context, understand the conditions that led to these behaviors, and draw out trends in the period.

I can imagine a section in a future history textbook that went something like this:

"A distinctive feature of the Second World War was the widespread use of 'concentration camps'. These camps allowed belligerents to separate and control groups (usually racially defined) that were considered potentially subversive. In many cases, those interned were put to forced labor in support of the war effort, but in others they were simply kept under military control.

Conditions in these camps were generally poor, but they varied greatly both between and within countries. The Japanese in American concentration camps were subject to undernourishment and forced labor, but relatively few were killed. Things were worse in the Soviet Union, where even the process of transportation to the camps was deadly to large numbers of Volga Germans. The most infamous camps were in German-controlled territory, where millions of Jews and other undesirables were systematically executed, in an event later known as 'the Holocaust'."

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#82
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone whose family ancestors were kidnapped to the US and forced to engage in unpaid labor I have to say this country never cared about freedom and human rights. It's all part of the national story designed to make the occupants of this country view themselves as better than the rest of the world.

Yup. It's a facade. Especially during the Carter, Nixon, HW Bush, etc. eras, culminating in Bush Jr's "They hate us for our Freedoms" speech after 9/11. No, they hate us for our overly zealous anti-communism that drove us to forcefully prop up dictatorships/extremist groups (Panama, Cuba, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, al Qaeda, etc.), and then vacate when things went sour. Time and time, and time again we did this in the past…

Communists of various stripes murdered somewhere around 100 million people in the last century.

What, exactly, counts as "overly zealous" in that context?

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#83
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a quote from General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command. He's basically the guy that convinced the president that this was a good idea. Why we put people like him in power (instead of prison), I'll never understand.

The next United States Secretary of Defense: "There are some people who think you have to hate them in order to shoot them. I don’t think you do. It’s just business." "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it’s quite fun to fight them,…

Are you equating Mattis to Dewitt?

If so, lets not forget Mattis's approach to things:

Talks to the enemy diplomatically: "I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all"

Promotes thinking rather than force from his subordinates: "You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon."

Works well with others: "I don't get intelligence off a satellite. Iraqis tell me who the enemy is."

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#84
post #2

For a country standing for Freedom and Human Rights, this kind of action is appalling. The quotes in the article from officials and three letters agencies stink of utter racism (even though no sabotage operations was ever undertaken).

As someone whose family ancestors were kidnapped to the US and forced to engage in unpaid labor I have to say this country never cared about freedom and human rights. It's all part of the national story designed to make the occupants of this country view themselves as better than the rest of the world.

A Belgian writer once remarked to me that he was surprised when he moved to the United States. Compared to everywhere else, Americans were so angry at each other all the time.

He postulated that because America was founded on two great crimes - genocide and slavery - and was instilled with the myth that rugged individualism creates success, generations of Americans have been screwed out of the opportunity that they are led to believe is their own, all while blaming themselves for all their misfortune, or others for stealing their opportunity, hence the anger.

I don't know if that cultural trait will ever depart the American psyche.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#85
post #2

For a country standing for Freedom and Human Rights, this kind of action is appalling. The quotes in the article from officials and three letters agencies stink of utter racism (even though no sabotage operations was ever undertaken).

The US has never practically been about any of that. They just have an amazing publicist.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#86
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a quote from General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command. He's basically the guy that convinced the president that this was a good idea. Why we put people like him in power (instead of prison), I'll never understand.

The next United States Secretary of Defense: "There are some people who think you have to hate them in order to shoot them. I don’t think you do. It’s just business." "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it’s quite fun to fight them,…

[deleted]

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#87
post #5

"The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken." THAT is disturbing "logic".

If you want more "logic", there's also Korematsu v. United States [1], one of the worst Supreme Court decisions in American history.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#89
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. It's a facade. Especially during the Carter, Nixon, HW Bush, etc. eras, culminating in Bush Jr's "They hate us for our Freedoms" speech after 9/11. No, they hate us for our overly zealous anti-communism that drove us to forcefully prop up dictatorships/extremist groups (Panama, Cuba, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, al Qaeda, etc.), and then vacate when things went sour. Time and time, and time again we did this in the past…

Communists of various stripes murdered somewhere around 100 million people in the last century. What, exactly, counts as "overly zealous" in that context?

Counter-examples abound: the US actively suppressed democracy in Latin America and elsewhere when it didn't suit American business interests, hence Guatemala.

Likewise, a great number of deaths at the hand of Communist leaders were due to utter incompetence and mismanagement, such as in China's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward.

My rule of thumb is that it's basically a bad thing when somebody dies who shouldn't have (if people were fair and compassionate).

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#90
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next United States Secretary of Defense: "There are some people who think you have to hate them in order to shoot them. I don’t think you do. It’s just business." "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it’s quite fun to fight them,…

Are you equating Mattis to Dewitt? If so, lets not forget Mattis's approach to things: Talks to the enemy diplomatically: "I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all" Promotes thinking rather than force from his subordinates: "You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weap…

I don't know about equating, but drawing parallels, yes.
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