Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#81

Post by pessimizer » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

This is a positive thing. It turns out that we can't run government by the Executive branch and various agencies just declaring stuff, we actually have to build institutions up legislatively and inform citizens of their purpose in order to create popular support that would punish legislators that don't conform to desired norms. Obama should have cleaned house of corporate Democrats voting in the interests of their paymasters, but his elite upbringing and education inculcated an actual belief in the policy suggestions of the self-interested experts and corporate representatives who he considered his peers. We've already seen what an unfettered executive looks in the hands of a moron, and a elite corporate technocrat - how about a madman?

That being said, this article is pure propaganda and contains no information. Of course decisions made by agencies can be reversed by the combined efforts of the elected head of state and the legislature. That's why we call it a democracy. The Post gives us no reason to think he has strong feelings about this other than

> Trump vowed to “eliminate our most intrusive regulations” and “reform the entire regulatory code.”

and a single tweet

> Obama’s attack on the internet is another top down power grab. Net neutrality is the Fairness Doctrine. Will target conservative media.

And to back that up, anonymous sources saying that it's unlikely that Trump was lying about something that they haven't even made a decent case that he said he would do or even feels strongly about:

> "It's unlikely Trump was misleading the public, according to policy and business analysts. The new administration, they say, will instead delete from history the Federal Communications Commission's unprecedented regulations for Internet providers."

10/10 anonymous unquoted policy and business analysts agree!

This entire article is sourced to "analysts" and it's about what Trump "could" do. What he could do with the support of Congress doesn't need "analysts" it's just a point of fact. The random analysts are just to make this sound like news.

Here's a better headline for the article so everybody will know it's shit and not worth clicking on:

Robert Kaminski, a Telecom Analyst at Capital Alpha Partners Says: "Net Neutrality Has a Big Target On Its Back," Declines to Explain Further

edit: This isn't fake news, it's shit news. I'm not accusing the Washington Post of being a fake news outlet.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#82

Post by charonn0 » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #35

This is an unpopular opinion here, but I think net neutrality is too absolutist. If a company wants to pay to have all the data of an app be free for their users, that's great in my opinion. I don't want ISP's to extort small players or artificially slow down anyone. But if a company wants their video streaming app to be zero-rated by paying all the data costs, that seems like a business decision to me. Some people w…

> Some people would rather everyone suffer than letting the market innovate on data plans.

And some people would rather everyone suffer than admit that "the market" is neither predictable nor a moral barometer.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#83

Post by cheetos » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

throwaway729 wrote: post #80

cheetos wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should the power of your vote depend on where you choose to lay your head down at night? Because it turns out that has a very strong effect on the power of your vote :) The electoral college exists to balance the voices of citizens in cities vs. "the country." It checks the power of highly dense populations who are more likely to vote for pro-city federal policies, so the needs of those in "the country" are not…

> The electoral college exists to balance the voices of citizens in cities vs. "the country That is the effect of the electoral college in modern politics, but it is not at all why the college exists.

I saw your other comment alluding to this and was intruiged. If you have time, can you please elaborate?

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#84

Post by Daishiman » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #27

cmurf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is essentially zero complaining about the FAA's quasi-legislative power. All of the regulatory agencies have quasi-legislative, executive, judicial activity. This is not new. If conservatives don't like what the FCC or FAA are doing, its about businesses complaining to them directly. It has nothing to do with conservative ideology being reluctant with the nature of regulatory agencies. The FAA regulates kites.…

Depends on the philosophical basis of their conservative or libertarian beliefs. Many conservatives have had fundamental issues with the administrative state, since they first opposed it in Prussia. Many of the problems which they have with the administrative state have to do with the incentives of the administrators, and the broad, arbitrary power delegated to the regulators.

I have yet to hear a single argument that stems from that philosophical basis that does not turn out to be suspiciously aligned with corporate interests.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#85

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

ci5er wrote: post #60

throwaway5752 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you take him at his word? It seems extremely unwise not to. Do you know who Jeffrey Eisenach and Mark Jamison are? edit: perhaps more constructively - if he were to be serious about dismantling Net Neutrality, what would he have done differently than exactly what he's doing now? Beyond his most insane proposals (Muslim registration and internment/concentration camps, building a physical 2000 mile wall on th…

> Do you know who Jeffrey Eisenach and Mark Jamison are? Uhhh. Yes. > if he were to be serious about dismantling Net Neutrality, what would he have done differently than exactly what he's doing now? Beyond his most insane proposals (Muslim registration and internment/concentration camps, building a physical 2000 mile wall on the Mexican border) he seems to be making all the necessary, concrete appointments necessary…

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Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#86

Post by bansheehash » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

luso_brazilian wrote: post #13

The part of the Net Neutrality debate that is so often disregarded (and probably the reason conservatives oppose it vehemently) is that it gives FCC (an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) power to legislate. Not passing judgement or touching the merit of the whole subject but it is a very consistent position of the right in the United States to oppose regulation passed down by unelected offic…

Going by the argument of opposing regulation/"interference" by unelected officials, conservatives could claim that the FDA (also an unelected body of government, part of the executive branch) frequently oversteps its bounds when it bans substances and products found to be harmful. How is a harmful product supposed to be taken off the market - wait for legislation from Congress while the product remains freely available?

I think delegation of authority is inevitable in a complicated administrative system.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#87

Post by throwaway729 » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

13years wrote: post #61

throwaway729 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it lets people who don't live on the coasts have a say too I'm from the midwest and I still don't understand this sentiment. Why should the power of your vote depend on where you choose to lay your head down at night? That seems extremely anti-democratic to me. It's not that people who don't live on the coasts shouldn't have a say. It's that if someone wins a popular vote by 2 million fucking votes , then t…

>That seems extremely anti-democratic to me. Exactly, and it is supposed to be. We are a republic and not a democracy. The founders strongly opposed democracy. One of the reasons being that minorities would have no representation if your government is by majority rule only.

The college no longer provides for any of the purposes that motivated its creation.

If we judge the college based upon the criteria that motivated its creation, then we inevitably reach the conclusion that the college should be abolished.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#88

Post by guelo » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

ci5er wrote: post #31

Well, sure. In theory, he could do anything by fiat within the bounds of established regulatory discretion. Of course, I wouldn't worry too much about all of the stuff that "Trump could do" until he gets around to doing it. He talks a lot. And, I suspect he won't have time to do all of the stuff that people worry about him potentially doing... As frustratingly slow as congressional action is -- it's more resistant to…

You're saying we shouldn't worry about Trump doing exactly what he said he would do and the Republican congress wants to do. That's just stupid. We need to start mobilizing against this now. We need to make sure Trump and the Republicans pay for every one of their unpopular, anti-consumer policies.

Also, I don't need any of your lessons.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#89

Post by vmarsy » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

aleeds wrote: post #59

cmurf wrote: post #28

Net neutrality involves less regulation and thus less barrier to entry. That government requires IsPs to collect data on usage, and store it for several months is a huge burden and cost to any would be small competitors. The loss of net neutrality just increases walled gardens. And there will be a patch work of exceptions instead of broad neutrality.

I am all for net neutrality, but net neutrality is definitely regulation. It's the government saying that one entity cannot pay another for a service/good, classic regulation.

Which entity isn't paying exactly? Content providers have to pay an ISP to be connected to the Internet in the first place. That price is diffused through the whole network of ISPs through their pricing schemes in between each other. It eventually reach the consumer-facing ISP such as AT&T and Comcast.

Instead of like you who pays for something like 100mbps download and 10 upload, big content provider probably have a commercial contract more like 100mbps upload and download for each of their data centers.

Re: Donald Trump could dismantle net neutrality

#90

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

throwaway5752 wrote: post #48

ci5er wrote: post #31

Well, sure. In theory, he could do anything by fiat within the bounds of established regulatory discretion. Of course, I wouldn't worry too much about all of the stuff that "Trump could do" until he gets around to doing it. He talks a lot. And, I suspect he won't have time to do all of the stuff that people worry about him potentially doing... As frustratingly slow as congressional action is -- it's more resistant to…

Why don't you take him at his word? It seems extremely unwise not to. Do you know who Jeffrey Eisenach and Mark Jamison are? edit: perhaps more constructively - if he were to be serious about dismantling Net Neutrality, what would he have done differently than exactly what he's doing now? Beyond his most insane proposals (Muslim registration and internment/concentration camps, building a physical 2000 mile wall on th…

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