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Elm is Wrong

reasonablypolymorphic.com

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81–90 of 218 posts

Re: Elm is Wrong

#81

Post by slmyers »

bbcbasic wrote: post #26

Unfortunately this is an opinionated piece with foul language and it is a bit offensive. Sandy should take into account that Elm is created by one person pretty much (‎Evan Czaplicki) who created it in his PhD thesis and has been maintaining it since. So it's someones baby still, and they might be offended. It is a remarkable for one person to create a language, runtime, repl, debugger, compiler to another quirky lan…

> Elm has inspired other frameworks in Purescript and the development of ReactJS

Can you give a few examples? Google is not being helpful.

Re: Elm is Wrong

#82

Post by logicallee »

mmarx wrote: post #74
logicallee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my point was actually about the specifics of picking up a language to do a new project , and then complaining about it. (Hence my example of writing a serious book in a language you don't know.) I think you really go into superlatives here. It's not fair for you to say "15 seconds", for example. 15 seconds is how long you've been reading this comment. (I just timed myself, okay maybe 10-13 seconds.) I also think t…

> Okay, so now make a serious iOS app in Objective-C in "a few hours". As in, have one by this time tomorrow. See? It's crazy. That's not how it works. But then making an iOS app requires picking up frameworks/libraries, not only learning Objective C, which was exactly GP's point: >> Libraries and frameworks take a lot more time than languages.

From the article:

"Unfortunately, Elm isn’t a library. It’s a language, which just happens to have a great library"

I don't know why we're arguing about this. It's another blog poster writing about something new they tried for one particular project, and in this case literally "why it's wrong". (After two weeks.) It's hard to take seriously.

Re: Elm is Wrong

#83

Post by john2x »

slmyers wrote: post #81
bbcbasic wrote: post #26

Unfortunately this is an opinionated piece with foul language and it is a bit offensive. Sandy should take into account that Elm is created by one person pretty much (‎Evan Czaplicki) who created it in his PhD thesis and has been maintaining it since. So it's someones baby still, and they might be offended. It is a remarkable for one person to create a language, runtime, repl, debugger, compiler to another quirky lan…

> Elm has inspired other frameworks in Purescript and the development of ReactJS Can you give a few examples? Google is not being helpful.

One that comes to mind (for Purescript) are the error messages.

Re: Elm is Wrong

#84

Post by sametmax »

inglor wrote: post #79
sametmax wrote: post #22

I'm not particularly interested in Elm, but basically this post is about one problem in the language. One. This doesn't make the language a pile of garbage as the author seems to let you think. I'm a Python programmer. I fully expect dict keys to be able to be arbitrary objects. But after coding a lot in JS, I realized I could live without it. It's nice, but it's not a show stopper if I don't have it. Same goes here.…

JavaScript maps can have object keys, you're just using objects as dictionaries. Objects in python don't typically have non-string keys. ```js var m = new Map(); var o = {}; // some object m.set(o, 5); m.get(o); // 5 ```

Map are not supported by most IE version, and even IE 11 doesn't support half of the API. The android browser doesn't support it at all either. Bottom line, you couldn't not have used Map during the last past years, and used objects for dict.

Re: Elm is Wrong

#85

Post by marlonicus »

I'm keen to hear more about the guitar learning helper you guys built! I've been planning to build a similar thing for a little while now. Care to do a blog post on what you guys did?

Re: Elm is Wrong

#86

Post by bloomca »

sametmax wrote: post #84
inglor wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript maps can have object keys, you're just using objects as dictionaries. Objects in python don't typically have non-string keys. ```js var m = new Map(); var o = {}; // some object m.set(o, 5); m.get(o); // 5 ```

Map are not supported by most IE version, and even IE 11 doesn't support half of the API. The android browser doesn't support it at all either. Bottom line, you couldn't not have used Map during the last past years, and used objects for dict.

Not too much people write plain JS anymore, and it is not that hard to build transpiling pipeline. Sometimes you have a small project and you don't want to deal with all this nonsense, but then you are writing code in one file and it is very small jquery style enhancements.

So, if you need objects as keys in dictionaries, then there is a big chance that you can use transpiling already (modules, other ES6 features).

Please, don't take it as an offence, just a suggestion – I really don't see a problem here.

Re: Elm is Wrong

#87

Post by mrkgnao »

b123400 wrote: post #70
pka wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PureScript!

I tried Halogen for a while and found it too complicated. I need to create a type with 6 type params (something like `ParentComponentSpec s s' f f' g p`) for embedding a child component! Also, most of the operations are wrapped in monad, which ultimately bring me back to the procedural way of thinking.

Pux is great!

Re: Elm is Wrong

#88

Post by ungzd »

Does the same criticism apply to OCaml and F#? Anyone who used these languages for long time, how do you solve lack of higher-kinded types (or OCaml has them?) and do polymorphism?

Re: Elm is Wrong

#89

Post by pka »

logicallee wrote: post #58
mikekchar wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't take "a few weeks" to learn a programming language!!! No, it doesn't. It takes a few hours. Which, I'm sure sounds flippant, but hear me out. In the 25-30 years I've been a professional programmer, I've been paid to use many different languages. FORTH, Fortran, C, C++, Pascal, Protel, C#, Java, Perl, Ruby, Go, Javascript/Coffeescript, and Python are the ones that come off the top of my head, but if I wer…

So my point was actually about the specifics of picking up a language to do a new project , and then complaining about it. (Hence my example of writing a serious book in a language you don't know.) I think you really go into superlatives here. It's not fair for you to say "15 seconds", for example. 15 seconds is how long you've been reading this comment. (I just timed myself, okay maybe 10-13 seconds.) I also think t…

You seem to miss the point.

Elm is particularly easy to pick up for people coming from Haskell. Maybe not in 15 seconds, but 15 minutes is a totally reasonable estimate.

The author can without doubt write a large project in Elm. His complaints were about missing the conveniences of abstraction Haskell-like languages provide, and he is more than qualified to talk about it.

Decomposing records into tuples of comparables has probably crossed his mind :)

Re: Elm is Wrong

#90

Post by [deleted] »

logicallee wrote: post #82
mmarx wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, so now make a serious iOS app in Objective-C in "a few hours". As in, have one by this time tomorrow. See? It's crazy. That's not how it works. But then making an iOS app requires picking up frameworks/libraries, not only learning Objective C, which was exactly GP's point: >> Libraries and frameworks take a lot more time than languages.

From the article: "Unfortunately, Elm isn’t a library. It’s a language, which just happens to have a great library" I don't know why we're arguing about this. It's another blog poster writing about something new they tried for one particular project, and in this case literally "why it's wrong". (After two weeks.) It's hard to take seriously.

[deleted]
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