Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#81

Post by phlo » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 1:35 PM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #78

sschueller wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there no trial period in the US? Every person we hire here (Switzerland) gets interviewed but because it is almost impossible to know if someone is going to work out there is a trial period of three months by law. Usually with a termination time of one week. After the trial you will usually need to give at least three month notice. You can get the most brilliant Coder but if he/she doesn't work with your existing…

A trial period is a great idea only if the switching of jobs is not disruptive to both parties. When you switch jobs in the USA, you switch health insurance and other benefits. Doing this for 3 months and then finding another job would be tedious. Also, if it doesn't work out, what does the candidate do? Go hunt for another job with a negative signal on their resume? If I were a job seeker that would seem high risk.…

> When you switch jobs in the USA, you switch health insurance and other benefits.

In Switzerland, you'll switch accident coverage and probably the pension fund. Still some work, but not as tedious as what I imagine the situation in the US to be like.

> Go hunt for another job with a negative signal on their resume?

Both parties are free to end employment during the trial period. Maybe the candidate didn't like the work environment? Also, the future employer stands to gain an employee pretty much immediately as opposed to wait for the usual 2-3 months(!) notice period. Finally, unemployment benefits in Switzerland are fairly generous (70% income over 20-ish months), which mitigates the risk to candidates somewhat.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#82

Post by pmorici » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 1:36 PM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #35

pmorici wrote: post #11

This has got to be one of the most honest descriptions of how job hunting actually works ever written and posted on HN. It's a sharp contrast to a lot of the stuff that is posted here that depicts job hunting like some kind of spiritual search for your life's passion.

I think this is a great description of the job hunting process early in your career. Later in your career, if you have kept connections alive, the job hunt should look like this: "Hi , I'm looking for a position doing X at Y, and I noticed you know Sara at Y. Do you mind doing intros? I'd really appreciate it." ... intros/coffee with Sara. ... resume to the hiring manager, perhaps through some automated system, but w…

Yeah, I totally agree. There are really two ways to find a job, what the OP describes and, as you say, via professional connections you've built over your career. If you can get a job you like through professional connections that is hands down the way to go.

Personally, with the exception of my first job out of school, I've always used the professional connections route. I probably couldn't get a job doing what the OP describes to save my life. Luckily, my reputation is such with prior employers and colleagues that I could call any of them up and they would go out of their way to hire me.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#83

Post by beevai142 » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #67

oblio wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's horrible. And I'm from Romania, which is a second world country, basically. We usually have a two week notice (it depends on the company and the position) and I've never seen someone escorted out. There's often a short inventory of company assets you used, and that's it.

It has its downsides, but the benefit of such a system is that it is easier to hire someone as well. It lowers the risk of hiring if you know that you can terminate employment just as easily, so the jobs market ends up being a bit more robust at the cost of a bit more volatility. It should also be noted that for the sort of jobs we are talking about here there is a difference between being terminated 'for cause' (e.g…

However, no notice and escorting people out sounds more like power fantasy than something with economic reasons.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#84

Post by pmiller2 » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 1:50 PM UTC

phlo wrote: post #81

mooreds wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trial period is a great idea only if the switching of jobs is not disruptive to both parties. When you switch jobs in the USA, you switch health insurance and other benefits. Doing this for 3 months and then finding another job would be tedious. Also, if it doesn't work out, what does the candidate do? Go hunt for another job with a negative signal on their resume? If I were a job seeker that would seem high risk.…

> When you switch jobs in the USA, you switch health insurance and other benefits. In Switzerland, you'll switch accident coverage and probably the pension fund. Still some work, but not as tedious as what I imagine the situation in the US to be like. > Go hunt for another job with a negative signal on their resume? Both parties are free to end employment during the trial period. Maybe the candidate didn't like the w…

Simply having a 3 month tenure on a résumé is a questionable signal to one's next employer, regardless of circumstances.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#85

Post by marcinzm » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

beevai142 wrote: post #83

evgen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has its downsides, but the benefit of such a system is that it is easier to hire someone as well. It lowers the risk of hiring if you know that you can terminate employment just as easily, so the jobs market ends up being a bit more robust at the cost of a bit more volatility. It should also be noted that for the sort of jobs we are talking about here there is a difference between being terminated 'for cause' (e.g…

However, no notice and escorting people out sounds more like power fantasy than something with economic reasons.

I'd say it's more of a security concern than anything. The thinking being that you don't want a potentially disgruntled employee with little to potentially lose have access to your systems.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#86

Post by mooreds » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #74

vonmoltke wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Later in your career, if you have kept connections alive, the job hunt should look like this If you kept connections alive and actually have connections that move on to other companies. 95% of the connections I have made in 14 years are either retired or still at the companies they were at when I met them. How does this help me?

Interesting! Not my experience, so hard to comment intelligibly. As if that is going to stop me, this is the internet. I guess I would still go into your network and see if they have met anyone who has moved on. Adter all, it isn't the direct connection that you are looking for (though that is preferable), but the second layer connection. Otherwise I think you are either in the position of following the author's advi…

I forgot one of the best ways to expand your contact network: contracting. Find a company that can sell your hours and give them the 40-50% they will take. Make sure you add everyone you work with (clients, other contractors) to your network list (I prefer LinkedIn but excel will work).

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#87

Post by kyrra » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

beevai142 wrote: post #83

evgen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has its downsides, but the benefit of such a system is that it is easier to hire someone as well. It lowers the risk of hiring if you know that you can terminate employment just as easily, so the jobs market ends up being a bit more robust at the cost of a bit more volatility. It should also be noted that for the sort of jobs we are talking about here there is a difference between being terminated 'for cause' (e.g…

However, no notice and escorting people out sounds more like power fantasy than something with economic reasons.

In the US, if there are mass layoffs at large company they need to give notice because of the WARN Act (100+ people) requires a 60 day notice. But many companies will just continue to pay those employees for 60 days but they aren't allowed on site (effectively fires, but still being paid)

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#88

Post by oblio » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #85

beevai142 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, no notice and escorting people out sounds more like power fantasy than something with economic reasons.

I'd say it's more of a security concern than anything. The thinking being that you don't want a potentially disgruntled employee with little to potentially lose have access to your systems.

I was sure someone would say this. As a comparison: Romania is a relatively poor country, full of hotheaded invididuals ("Balkan" mentality). On top of that, we're apparently EU's #2 expat community in terms of total prison population. So both hotheads and also a lot of criminals (most likely thieves).

And yet we still allow our folks to walk unescorted for a few weeks inside the company premises.

After all, how many just-layed-off employees will want to steal or damage company property to top off their recent loss of job with criminal charges and a criminal record?

From the outside it feels like a bit of paranoia on the part of US companies.

I might be missing something, this is just my opinion as an outsider.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#89

Post by maxehnert » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 3:18 PM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #11

This has got to be one of the most honest descriptions of how job hunting actually works ever written and posted on HN. It's a sharp contrast to a lot of the stuff that is posted here that depicts job hunting like some kind of spiritual search for your life's passion.

Hey thanks for the kind words. I wasn't sure how receptive people would be to this when I originally wrote it out but I'm glad some people enjoyed it. Hopefully it helps a few people.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#90

Post by maxehnert » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #17

Side question - how do these people interviewing at "a dozen or so places" manage it? Assuming most companies' interviews will force you to take a full day off work, and they will have different schedules and offer deadlines. Is there a trick to managing this that is eluding me? Even with taking a couple of weeks off it seems like it would be very difficult.

I mentioned I track everything and try to apply in a small timeline to bunch interviews together. Most places want 2-3 phone interviews before anything else which at most meant leaving work a half hour early (I just go in early or stay late another day). When it comes to on sites, well I guess I had a lot of vacation time from not taking any previously.

I hadn't really thought about that before, but yes the time issues could be very challenging to juggle if you aren't in an ideal situation.