23andme for only $99 today only • Hacker News Board

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#81

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:42 PM UTC

chronomex wrote: post #77

jacquesm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure on how to make this even more clear, but your DNA is your identity, so when you give it to someone they have your identity and no amount of anonymization is going to change that. All you're missing is the metadata of 'name, date of birth, social security number' and so on. But that's just a system we've placed on top of 'who you are', which is your genes. Your fingerprint, your retina scan, your f…

So do identical twins count for one person?

And so do clones, from a genetic point of view.

So if you and your identical twin brother or sister are both going to apply to 23andme for an analysis you should get back the same results, and if your identical twin brother or sister commits a murder and hightails it to zanzibar you are in a lot of trouble if their dna is found at the crimescene and you happened to be in the neighbourhood.

The number of identical twins is low enough that for the larger part of this discussion you can leave them out of the equation, they're the exception that confirms the rule, the differences in DNA are very subtle, and afaik will not be readily detected in a normal analysis.

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#82

Post by jjs » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:46 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #49

grandalf wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I leave samples of it most everywhere I go anyway...

But not with your name and address attached to them, as well as a fee to help in processing them.

When you mail a letter, do you lick the envelope?

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#83

Post by infinite8s » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:46 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #63

bbgm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that this is what makes 23andme interesting. Without that capability, it's a toy for rich people. First of all, today, this is not full genome information, just your genotype. Second, if we want good molecular medicine, information like this is essential (some might argue the only way) to get good sampling and do the appropriate research. Addendum since I can't reply to the comment. They don't quite have th…

> this is not full genome information, just your genotype. That's what they give you. But you give them your full genome.

First, to clear up some misunderstandings, your genome is your genotype. They mean the same thing. Also, what 23andme is offering isn't a complete sequence of your genetic code (at least not for $100). The current estimated price is for a complete sequence is about $10,000 to $100,000 (it's come down a lot recently, but it is still beyond the finances of most people). What they are actually doing is mapping certain known locations in the human genome, known as SNPs (single-nucleotide polymorphisms), and seeing what variation you have there. Some diseases are due to a changes in a single gene (for example cystic fibrosis is due to a mutation in a membrane channel), so one SNP they map is the location of the typical mutations in this gene. Other diseases have high correlations to certain combinations of nearby SNPs, and so these can be predictive. It is basically like a world map where the genetic code is on the level of city blocks, but all you have on your map is the location of random streets around the world.

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#84

Post by mechanical_fish » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:52 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #43

infinite8s wrote: post #36

This is a great deal, although I'm torn. We are about to add a new member to our family, so this would make an awesome 0th birthday gift, but the prospects of knowing all the health information up front is rather scary (and who knows who might be able to access it in the future - it needs some sort of secure swiss bank setup). Welcome to Gattaca!

> and who knows who might be able to access it in the future - it needs some sort of secure swiss bank setup That's exactly my problem with this. And no amount of anonymization will help here, after all, not even your finger prints identify you as solidly as your full genome does.

If you're gonna be paranoid about Gattaca you need to go all the way. DNA sequencing is going to be so cheap that it will be more cost-effective to sequence your ambient DNA from an elevator button or a used tissue than to look up your obsolete sequence data from some old 20th-century corporate database.

The problem of misuse of DNA sequence information may be very real, but whether or not you do business with 23andme is probably an insignificant blip. We need legal safeguards, not minor-league personal boycotts.

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#85

Post by infinite8s » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:52 PM UTC

Aron wrote: post #68

bradfordw wrote: post #66

Send your $99 to me. I'll pick a disease at random and you likely have a better, if not, as good a chance at getting it based on how they calculate risks. Today only, I'll do it for $9.

This is only upvote worthy if it's premise is true. For that, we need evidence.

For free, I'll tell you that you are fairly likely to get some kind of cancer.

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#86

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:54 PM UTC

dlewis wrote: post #80

jacquesm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to give you an example, I just bought at an auction the complete contents of a defunct company. Amongst the stuff I got was their servers and their bookkeeping. I never entered in to any agreement with the people whose data is stored on those servers, and yet I have all of it. A 'survival clause' that would guarantee destruction of your data in case the company goes out of business would be a minimum here. But i…

Looks like they do have a 'survival clause' in their privacy statment: Business Transitions In the event that 23andMe goes through a business transition such as a merger, acquisition by another company, or sale of all or a portion of its assets, your personal information and non-personal information will likely be among the assets transferred. You will be notified in advance via email and prominent notice on our webs…

Good for them, that's a step in the right direction, but once your data is then in the hands of party #2 the whole thing starts all over again.

And what about all those companies that have received copies of your genetic data from 23andme in the meantime, and their survival clauses?

I don't think it is possible to do this in a watertight way.

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#87

Post by thirdusername » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:56 PM UTC

chronomex wrote: post #77

jacquesm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure on how to make this even more clear, but your DNA is your identity, so when you give it to someone they have your identity and no amount of anonymization is going to change that. All you're missing is the metadata of 'name, date of birth, social security number' and so on. But that's just a system we've placed on top of 'who you are', which is your genes. Your fingerprint, your retina scan, your f…

So do identical twins count for one person?

Identical twins don't have the same DNA.

Random link of Google: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/health/11real.html

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#88

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:56 PM UTC

infinite8s wrote: post #83

jacquesm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is not full genome information, just your genotype. That's what they give you. But you give them your full genome.

First, to clear up some misunderstandings, your genome is your genotype. They mean the same thing. Also, what 23andme is offering isn't a complete sequence of your genetic code (at least not for $100). The current estimated price is for a complete sequence is about $10,000 to $100,000 (it's come down a lot recently, but it is still beyond the finances of most people). What they are actually doing is mapping certain k…

Yes, you're right, sorry about the confusion. The point I was trying to make was they give you the 'limited' version, but you give them everything. They may not sequence it all today but they could do so in the future (I'm assuming they keep copies), and they could sell your samples to parties that can sequence it all (today or in the future).

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#89

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 6:58 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #84

jacquesm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and who knows who might be able to access it in the future - it needs some sort of secure swiss bank setup That's exactly my problem with this. And no amount of anonymization will help here, after all, not even your finger prints identify you as solidly as your full genome does.

If you're gonna be paranoid about Gattaca you need to go all the way. DNA sequencing is going to be so cheap that it will be more cost-effective to sequence your ambient DNA from an elevator button or a used tissue than to look up your obsolete sequence data from some old 20th-century corporate database. The problem of misuse of DNA sequence information may be very real, but whether or not you do business with 23andm…

Minor league personal boycotts can raise the awareness and lead to better legal safeguards.

Re: 23andme for only $99 today only

#90

Post by biotech » Fri, Apr 23, 2010, 7:00 PM UTC

For those who are concerned about privacy, you could request that they delete your information after you have received the product. It says in their refund policy:

You can, however, request deletion of your genetic data by providing us with written notice to help@23andme.com. We will delete your genetic data from our records within 30 days of receipt of such notice.