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22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

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Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#81

Post by rsync »

Pinckney wrote: post #49
rsync wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific ? While teaching my children to play m:tg I had the same impression as you describe, but I wasn't exactly sure what aspects I was missing ...

Generally speaking, the cheap decks people start the game with aren't very interesting to pilot. They don't have enough removal, which is one of the primary ways players interact with their opponent's board. They definitely don't have boardwipes, which means just playing the best creature in hand each turn is usually the right play. They typically don't have much card selection. And most complexity is concentrated at…

What about the spell stack ? I seem to remember a LIFO spell stack for all instants and abilities, but now it doesn't seem to work that way ... I can't really tell how instants vs. interrupts work anymore and if the spell stack actually works the way it did in the old (late 90s) way ?

Or is it still the same ?

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#82

Post by ufo »

rsync wrote: post #81
Pinckney wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, the cheap decks people start the game with aren't very interesting to pilot. They don't have enough removal, which is one of the primary ways players interact with their opponent's board. They definitely don't have boardwipes, which means just playing the best creature in hand each turn is usually the right play. They typically don't have much card selection. And most complexity is concentrated at…

What about the spell stack ? I seem to remember a LIFO spell stack for all instants and abilities, but now it doesn't seem to work that way ... I can't really tell how instants vs. interrupts work anymore and if the spell stack actually works the way it did in the old (late 90s) way ? Or is it still the same ?

The Stack was introduced in the 6th edition rules change (1999) and still works the same way today. The 6th edition rules also unified the instant and interrupt types, because the separate interrupt type was only necessary in the old "batch-based" system.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#83

Post by pcmaffey »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #54
touchofevil wrote: post #29

This is nowhere near the brainiest Magic has ever been. I've been playing almost since the beginning and it's been disappointing to see how the game has been simplified. It seems like all competitive standard decks now are creature decks, which is a shame because control and combo decks used to be a huge part of the meta game and required a lot of skill to pilot. I think Wizards deliberately eliminated combo and cont…

I've been playing since Ice Age, and my first competitive deck was Enchantress combo, so I totally feel you regarding mourning the relative power decrease of combo (and hard control) as archetypes. But you do spell out the exact reasoning for this, and I'm inclined to agree with Wizard's decision making here. I play mostly Modern and Legacy nowadays, in part because I prefer the older, more complex interaction heavy…

At the same time, completely locking down your opponent is the most fun way to win.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#84

Post by overcast »

JPKab wrote: post #51
GarrisonPrime wrote: post #15

"The brainiest it's ever been" makes it sound like it's ramping up the intellect. I guess they're saying that because of the end of the "dumbed-down" core sets, but I doubt it's the case for the game as a whole. I tried getting back into Magic after an 8-year hiatus, and so many of the rules had been changed and simplified that many of the subtleties I enjoyed from before were no longer options. Felt like I was payin…

I remember playing the game in the late 90s, and trying again in the early 2000's. The strategy and game-play dynamics were awesome. Not so awesome: the fact that the amount of money a player spends acquiring rarer cards and assembling a deck dictates their success. It's a pay-to-win game and I fucking hate games like that. Not unlike paintball, he who spends the most on gear wins.

Played paintball for fifteen years, competitively, traveling all over the country, also ran a large online forum. That is not true at all. Especially today, the differences between the high end, and low end guns are at this point, just looks, and luxuries.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#85

Post by hayksaakian »

minimaxir wrote: post #9
moultano wrote: post #3

Does anyone else feel revulsion at the notion of a "mythic rare?" Magic feels like a cross between a brilliant game and a video poker machine.

The fact that the rarity top-end is only "Mythic Rare" makes it more tame than most modern TCGs.

They just permanently introduced expedition cards which are even rarer

In the current set they're known as "inventions"

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#86

Post by Pinckney »

rsync wrote: post #81
Pinckney wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, the cheap decks people start the game with aren't very interesting to pilot. They don't have enough removal, which is one of the primary ways players interact with their opponent's board. They definitely don't have boardwipes, which means just playing the best creature in hand each turn is usually the right play. They typically don't have much card selection. And most complexity is concentrated at…

What about the spell stack ? I seem to remember a LIFO spell stack for all instants and abilities, but now it doesn't seem to work that way ... I can't really tell how instants vs. interrupts work anymore and if the spell stack actually works the way it did in the old (late 90s) way ? Or is it still the same ?

The modern stack is so much more sane than the old batch based system. You can still do plenty of interesting things with it, like casting Blessed Alliance during the end of combat step to get rid of Giest of Saint Traft, or casting Infernal Tutor, then holding priority and cracking a Lion's Eye Diamond, or responding to an O-ring trigger with another O-ring for a permanent exile, or burning somebody out in responding to a lethal mana-barbs trigger.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#87

Post by ericzawo »

Man, I miss playing Magic with the neighbourhood kids. Such a seriously great card game.

And here's a wonderful little doc on Vice about Magic, and a group of people who play what's now called Vintage Magic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plr81gaUIr0

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#88

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

lukifer wrote: post #69
GarrisonPrime wrote: post #15

"The brainiest it's ever been" makes it sound like it's ramping up the intellect. I guess they're saying that because of the end of the "dumbed-down" core sets, but I doubt it's the case for the game as a whole. I tried getting back into Magic after an 8-year hiatus, and so many of the rules had been changed and simplified that many of the subtleties I enjoyed from before were no longer options. Felt like I was payin…

If you're looking for another way to scratch that itch, look into Netrunner. The game and the culture are both fun and creative, and it's possible to build competitive decks for about a hundred bucks (as an LCG, all cards come as full playsets, so you know exactly what you're getting). It's more fun in person, but there's also a free community-made site where you can play online, and most players are happy to teach:…

Are decks created before play? As opposed to Dominion or Ascension where you build decks as you play.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#89

Post by quink »

Planechase is getting an Anthology release and the Commander decks are having their yearly release, both this month.

The latest block set introduced a new mechanic that substantially expands the design space and the set just before that, Conspiracy: Take the Crown is a mix of drafting complexity and a substantial amount of multiplayer complexity.

All I hear is that Magic introduced a stack system in 1999 and apparently that dumbed it down to unplayability.

The past two releases and the next two this month are huge recent evidence to the contrary. It's the same with getting rid of Mana Burn, removing it reduce complexity and made some archetypes useless. But the mental space it previously occupied was filled with the opportunity to expand there design space and make it a more varied game.

A new Archenemy set is due next year too. So with just the releases over a year you'd be able to play Archenemy Planechase Conspiracy (or at least the draft cards, god knows how to combine those with EDH though, probably just cube?) EDH. Anyone who'd think that shirks complexity is wrong.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#90

Post by Pinckney »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #88
lukifer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking for another way to scratch that itch, look into Netrunner. The game and the culture are both fun and creative, and it's possible to build competitive decks for about a hundred bucks (as an LCG, all cards come as full playsets, so you know exactly what you're getting). It's more fun in person, but there's also a free community-made site where you can play online, and most players are happy to teach:…

Are decks created before play? As opposed to Dominion or Ascension where you build decks as you play.

Yes.

I like Netrunner because I feel you're less constrained by your draws. You can run aggressively with an empty board, forcing the corp to spend money on their defenses. You can spend actions digging for cards you need.

Draws still matter, of course, but it's less common for me to feel like I'm trying to top-deck answers in Netrunner.

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