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Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

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Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#81
post #63
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work like that. Most PC "manufacturers" (including Apple) don't make PCs, and they all use the same Taiwanese OEMs/ODMs and Chinese factories. The main ones are Quanta, Compal, Pegatron (spun out of Asus), Foxconn (Hon Hai), Wistron (spun out of Acer), Inventec etc. Quanta is probably the biggest notebook manufacturer, followed by Compal and Pegatron. Compal and Pegatron probably have the best quality over…

I don't think it's so simple. Sure, Apple makes laptops at the same places as Dell or Lenovo. But I can't imagine Apple releasing, as Dell as, multiple product lines with a glaring quality defect (coil whine). Or consistently using cheaper IPS displays with backlight bleed and PWM like Lenovo. Apple's laptops aren't defect free by any means (e.g. anti glare coating rubbing off, paint rubbing off on the black polycarb…

In fairness, there's also a market for "80-90% of the quality for 40-50% of the cost". Apple's strategy is to stick to high end and that's worked out well for them but for someone like me who uses a laptop only occasionally as a secondary computer or for mobile media stuff (dj, vj, projection art, etc) they just don't offer something I can justify buying.

Last laptop I bought was maybe 3 years ago. I was comparing everything at the local Microcenter and wanted something fairly powerful but not to the point that I was paying a hefty premium for that last "tier" of polish and quality. By sorting the options to include only i7, at least 16GB RAM, dedicated GPU, and at least 1920x1080 display, I was left with some silly Asus that looked like a Michael Bay Transformer, another Asus with a tasteful aluminum chassis, and a Macbook Pro.

The black thing with red LED lighting was out because I guess I am still a bit shallow and superficial. The other Asus had a better GPU, lower quality TN display, and spinning HDD in comparison to the lower-end GPU, nicer IPS display and SSD on the MBP. But the aluminum Asus cost $999 and the MBP was $2399.

I wouldn't have minded buying an Apple notebook if there had been a more affordable option with similar tradeoffs but as you say, they don't make ones like that. And I'd certainly like a nicer screen but not for more than double the price. A SSD was easy enough to swap into the Asus and when I upgraded the one in my desktop, I passed that older SSD down to the laptop.

I guess the main point is that these other OEMs like Asus still do decent sales and produce options with less-than-top-tier parts because there's a real market for those who are fine buying an Accord instead of a Mercedes even if the Mercedes has some superior features or build. Not sure how much of it is artificial (as far as intentionally targeting different price brackets with parts that may only cost the OEM $100-200 less to include).

Either way, as my current budget stands, I'll continue to gravitate toward whatever company can sell me "not quite the best" for half the cost of the top tier.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#82
Well, ok. Reading the data here, Apple and Asus shipped about the same number of notebooks last year at 17m. This year, Asus is expected to hold the line at around 17m, while Apple shipments are predicted dropping to 13m.

I would say two things about this:

1) Except for the MacBook, it has been a year without new Apple notebooks until last week's announcement. Most of the Mac product line has been pretty crusty all year, so I imagine a lot of people have been waiting.

2) Asus ships some sub-$300 notebooks. Apple's start at $1000.

Given all that, I wouldn't say this comparison is particularly revealing.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#83

I think part of the recent sentiment towards Apple is due to the expectations game. If it had been a different company, like Asus, to introduce a very thin, very lightweight computer with excellent graphics and a touch strip, I think a lot of people would be thinking, "wow! Asus is really innovating! what a useful little machine!". But because it is Apple, the expectations go far beyond that of any other company, so…

Strange I find the opposite. There seems to be a "well, these guys seem to be doing okay, but they're nowhere near the polish and design of Apple" for pretty much any competitor. I don't think I've ever heard a compliment toward Asus, yet have heard Apple compliments all my life.

I also think Apple expectations are kinda low. I think everyone is used to Apple and just deal with their oddities and questionable decisions. The same way Windows guys just shrug and upgrade to Win10 without question. People don't want to learn new platforms and just want something similar to what they had, so they'll make a lot of excuses to avoid the pain of migrating platforms.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#84

Well, ok. Reading the data here, Apple and Asus shipped about the same number of notebooks last year at 17m. This year, Asus is expected to hold the line at around 17m, while Apple shipments are predicted dropping to 13m. I would say two things about this: 1) Except for the MacBook, it has been a year without new Apple notebooks until last week's announcement. Most of the Mac product line has been pretty crusty all y…

I think it's a sign of commodification coming to notebooks, as happened years ago with desktops. People are no longer upgrading so frequently and no longer feel the need to go for a top-of-the-line model when they do. If sub-$300 notebooks are outselling $1000+ notebooks I'd say that's a very revealing development.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#85
post #6

Quality wise who is better and reliable as a Windows or Linux machine manufacturer. Help me create a sequence: 1. Razer 2. Asus 3. Microsoft 4. Dell 5. Lenovo 6. HP 7. Acer 8. Sony (?) 9. Samsung Apple (?) Clevo (?) Toshiba (?) system76 (?) alienware (?)

My experience is that Microsoft and Acer are both more reliable than Asus.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you use preinstalled OS anyway? Every manufacturer installs ton of unneeded crapware. Just download pristine Windows iso and install it from scratch.

Because I shouldn't have to do work just so the machine is usable. If I bought a PC, I would buy it from Microsoft, as they don't sell them with all the crap.

...other than first-party Microsoft crap. But you would get that anyway in any other OEM version of Windows, along with additional third-party crap.

As long as you're willing to put in a tiny bit of effort, you can know that all the software on your machine is coming from known people and companies, that you chose to trust.

Apple is the only company I would trust [at this time] to put only Apple software on retail Apple hardware. But that is because even if anybody was willing to comply with the inevitable list of strict requirements, Apple would almost certainly try to charge the third-parties so much to bundle their software, that no one would reasonably be able to justify the cost.

Microsoft, I could see making a deal with some third-party to put into certain models of the Surface. It might just be something like hardware drivers with a Windows GUI to change some settings, but they would do it.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you use preinstalled OS anyway? Every manufacturer installs ton of unneeded crapware. Just download pristine Windows iso and install it from scratch.

Because I shouldn't have to do work just so the machine is usable. If I bought a PC, I would buy it from Microsoft, as they don't sell them with all the crap.

Which sell for about the same price as a MacBook Pro. I'm sure the margins are good, but the cost to make a high quality laptop seems to be going up.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#88
post #51

Last year I finally switched to mac for work (I had family mac air). Before that I always used thinkpads. I still think the 15" T60 was one of the best computers I have owned. I would have stayed with it if I could upgrade 16gb (ahh Java development). The new thinkpads are bad. I'm sort of annoyed that I finally got used to mac and it is now down a path of crap (love the form factor... hate the Mac UI and no upgrade)…

I wouldn't discount the ThinkPads so quickly.

I use a T460s for work - its a great machine. I prefer it to my 2013 MBP.

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#89
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the expectations, Apple's price tags demand innovation. If they're not doing anything special you can get much cheaper hardware.

I'm curious if, beyond innovative features, the actual build quality and battery life of a machine should command higher prices. I had a couple Windows laptops (one by Dell) with quite poor battery life. My MacBook Pro from 2011 goes all day with serious activity without a charge, sometimes 2 days. I don't discredit the disappointment in the recent Apple laptop announcements, but I do think that paying a premium pric…

> My MacBook Pro from 2011 goes all day with serious activity without a charge

As an owner of a 2011 MacBook Pro with a recently replaced battery, I don't believe you. We either don't share the same understanding of "all day", "serious activity", "without a charge", or "goes".

Re: Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if, beyond innovative features, the actual build quality and battery life of a machine should command higher prices. I had a couple Windows laptops (one by Dell) with quite poor battery life. My MacBook Pro from 2011 goes all day with serious activity without a charge, sometimes 2 days. I don't discredit the disappointment in the recent Apple laptop announcements, but I do think that paying a premium pric…

> My MacBook Pro from 2011 goes all day with serious activity without a charge As an owner of a 2011 MacBook Pro with a recently replaced battery, I don't believe you. We either don't share the same understanding of "all day", "serious activity", "without a charge", or "goes".

Well by serious activity I mean writing C++ all day in emacs and compiling it maybe a hundred times or more. And the usual web browsing, email throughout the day.

I can easily make it through a full work day doing this without plugging in the machine.

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