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The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#81

Post by Fargren »

nikcub wrote: post #68

> Schedule I substances are those that have the following findings: > 1. The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. > 2. The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. > 3. There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision Kratom doesn't meet any of those requirements, let alone all three. The sche…

>>over 3x as many Americans who were killed in Iraq in total - so 3 Iraq wars per year.

I know what you mean, but it really bothers me that you are only counting American deaths. The total number of Iraqi deaths arising from the Iraq war is highly disputed, but it seems to be somewhere between 150,000 and a bit over 1,000,000, depending on the survey and whether it only counts direct deaths of combatants vs. surveys that count civilian deaths and indirect effects. In any case, deaths arising from opioids are nowhere near any amount of "Iraq wars per year".

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#82

Post by metaphorm »

deathanatos wrote: post #42
vt240 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our law makers have delegated many of their powers, under the constitution, to administrative organizations. There are lots of good arguments for and against this, but it is the primary reason why presidential elections are so important in the USA.

Right. And I think the parent asked a really good question: isn't the power of regulating what foods and drugs are safe for the populace to consume a responsibility that was delegated to the USFDA, not the DEA? If the DEA does have this power … isn't there overlap between the FDA and the DEA?

the answer is simple: the FDA is not a police agency and the DEA is.

their domains overlap because the prohibition culture of the U.S. government does not treat "drugs" rationally (i.e. as if they were simply medicines) but rather has tied the entire concept up in a gordian knot of fear, racism, social engineering, and in-group selection.

similarly, alcohol and tobacco, despite obviously being "drugs" even according to the logic of the federal government bureaucracy, are given their own police agency as well, because the DEA was tasked with persecuting hippies and brown-skinned people, whereas the ATF was tasked with shooting up disobedient white people.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#83

Post by alexbecker »

cmdrfred wrote: post #64
rms wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco and alcohol are unusually dangerous in the scheme of drugs. I don't disagree with your intention to relax restrictions behind drugs, but if this logic was followed, nearly every drug would be legalized, which is not the goal of the government of the USA.

If that is true, and your end goal is truly safety, why doesn't the FDA and DEA advocate for the criminalization of those drugs as well? I have been told that the argument is that prohibition caused violence and crime, but so does the prohibition of heroin so that logic doesn't seem to hold.

Because it would be politically impossible? (I would also argue that the DEA's goal is not safety.)

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#84

Post by unethical_ban »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #71
unethical_ban wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Au contraire, a substance should only be banned from consumption if it is shown to be highly addictive, and life-threatening if overconsumed. Or something like that. I don't believe something should be banned until presumed completely safe.

>>highly addictive, and life-threatening if overconsumed You mean like caffeine or nicotine?

No.

1) Addictive as in, one "normal" dose causes high physical addiction.

2) Lethal, more specifically that it is easy to overdose, or that the difference between "normal" and LD50 is low.

You don't get hooked on caffeine after one coke, and it's hard to kill yourself drinking too much coffee.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#85

Post by xacaxulu »

nikcub wrote: post #68

> Schedule I substances are those that have the following findings: > 1. The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. > 2. The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. > 3. There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision Kratom doesn't meet any of those requirements, let alone all three. The sche…

It would appear that refined sugar fits this profile more than kratom does.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#86

Post by usefulcat »

Fargren wrote: post #81
nikcub wrote: post #68

> Schedule I substances are those that have the following findings: > 1. The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. > 2. The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. > 3. There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision Kratom doesn't meet any of those requirements, let alone all three. The sche…

>>over 3x as many Americans who were killed in Iraq in total - so 3 Iraq wars per year. I know what you mean, but it really bothers me that you are only counting American deaths. The total number of Iraqi deaths arising from the Iraq war is highly disputed, but it seems to be somewhere between 150,000 and a bit over 1,000,000, depending on the survey and whether it only counts direct deaths of combatants vs. surveys…

I remember listening to a rare press conference with President Bush in 2006. Someone asked him how many people had died as a result of the war in Iraq. To my genuine astonishment, he answered that approximately 60000 had died thus far. I couldn't decide whether to be more astonished at the figure, or that he had just given a straightforward answer to a direct question.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#87

Post by toss1941 »

PostOnce wrote: post #52
WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

A whole bunch of plants can kill you, we haven't banned nightshade, most mushrooms, poison ivy, green potatoes lol. Let's ban poison ivy. Let's ban going outside without sunblock on. Let's ban walking around without a bicycle helmet on. Let's have the govt come into my office every two hours and remind me to get up and walk around and stretch. At some point, people have to take care of themselves. How many kratom add…

And there is strong evidence that Kratom curtails alcohol addiction. Kratom is amazing. It has anti-depressive effects that once fully understand I believe will usher in a new and vastly superior wave of anti-depressants. To schedule 1 this plant is beyond insane. Banning it is the bunny brained idea of a lunatic. The DEA is completely out of touch with reality or some special interest is pulling their strings.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#88

Post by ambicapter »

oxide wrote: post #3
miles wrote: post #2

The DEA reversing course due to public outcry (and common sense)?! What alternate reality have we slipped into?! Previously: DEA will ban chemicals contained in kratom, a popular herbal supplement https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12410083 Call to Action to save Kratom plant from DEA's uninformed Schedule I decision https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12438605

It really isn't a course reversal, the people holding the purse strings seemed to have forced the DEA's hand into extending the period of public comment. IIRC something similar happened with MDMA. Hopefully folks like myself who have used Kratom to alleviate opiate withdrawal to great success will come forward and comment. Anecdotally speaking, there are folks who have used kratom to ween themselves off of maintenanc…

The powdered leaf also tastes like ass, and to take enough to feel anything is a bit like doing a saltine challenge, so its also self-regulating in that way :)

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#89

Post by scottmf »

unethical_ban wrote: post #84
slowmovintarget wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>highly addictive, and life-threatening if overconsumed You mean like caffeine or nicotine?

No. 1) Addictive as in, one "normal" dose causes high physical addiction. 2) Lethal, more specifically that it is easy to overdose, or that the difference between "normal" and LD50 is low. You don't get hooked on caffeine after one coke, and it's hard to kill yourself drinking too much coffee.

Which drugs cause "high physical addiction" with one dose?

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#90

Post by hiisukun »

oxide wrote: post #3
miles wrote: post #2

The DEA reversing course due to public outcry (and common sense)?! What alternate reality have we slipped into?! Previously: DEA will ban chemicals contained in kratom, a popular herbal supplement https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12410083 Call to Action to save Kratom plant from DEA's uninformed Schedule I decision https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12438605

It really isn't a course reversal, the people holding the purse strings seemed to have forced the DEA's hand into extending the period of public comment. IIRC something similar happened with MDMA. Hopefully folks like myself who have used Kratom to alleviate opiate withdrawal to great success will come forward and comment. Anecdotally speaking, there are folks who have used kratom to ween themselves off of maintenanc…

For those that may have read this comment and found it strangely familiar, I'll save you the trouble googling. It appears oxide regularly comments on opiate related threads, so his above anecdote isn't a copy of someone else's comment - it is just him re-stating his experiences he has posted before.

I mean no criticism of your story oxide; merely commenting for those who thought something might be awry.

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