From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war • Hacker News Board

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#81

Post by Yetanfou » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 11:05 AM UTC

petriw wrote: post #79

Yetanfou wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that central Stockholm is an oasis of order and prosperity is sometimes seen as a key factor in the developments in Sweden. Why? Because that is where a large majority of the politicians reside. Then they look out of their windows at the ordered world outside and think 'see, things are going just great in Sweden'. Meanwhile cars are burned every night just a few subway ('tunnelbana') stops away but since the…

Order and good living conditions is the norm in most of the country. Unless the politicians come specifically from these areas they will be accustomed to that version of Sweden regardless of where they lived most of their life. Even said areas are mostly calm except when the youths are on school breaks. Plus, the areas you speak of vote for the left (S and V, not MP), aka the very politicians who supposedly don't und…

Given the low employment and high dependence on government subsidies it is hardly surprising that the majority of votes in these areas goes to those parties which are least likely to reduce those subsidies. In that respect these areas do not differ from other areas with low employment, even though some of those who traditionally would have voted for S (social democratic party) now vote for SD (Sweden democrats). Even that is not really surprising, given that the party program for SD is in many ways comparable to that of the social democratic party in the '50s and '60s, including the rhetoric about the virtues of a homogeneous society.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#82

Post by Yetanfou » Wed, Oct 05, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

petriw wrote: post #80

Yetanfou wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also the difference of the scale of the problem, coupled with the polarisation in the media which has led to knee-jerk reactions when it comes to reporting on the issues - think of the way Dagens Nyheter (one of the bigger daily newspapers in Sweden) handled - or should I say covered up - the sexual abuse going on at the 'We are Sthlm' festivals. They sat on this news for 5 months until it was no longer tena…

This is just conspiracy stuff. 'We are Sthlm' was not judged newsworthy until the Cologne stuff. Now every potential groping at every festival is newsworthy, to the point where it's getting ridiculous. And are you telling me the police literally has a code that singles out EVERY migrant related incident in their system? And that this would supposedly hide it from someone? Obviously that has worked out swimmingly and…

We are Sthlm was not judged newsworthy because the (Stockholm) redaction at DN thought it was a 'rumour kicked up by SD'. The police certainly thought it was newsworthy, as did those who reported the issue. Even the journalist who took the report initially thought it newsworthy.

I'm not telling you anything, I'll let the police (in this case through an article in DN (Dagens Nyheter) but a quick search on 'polisen kod 291' will give more pointers) do the talking. Since this is the Swedish police being discussed in a Swedish newspaper the article is in Swedish as well [1]. In this article (and elsewhere through $your_favourite_search_engine) you can read that 'every report where the plaintiff, the suspect or the person being interrogated is a migrant now has to be marked with the special code "291"' ('Varje anmälan där målsäganden, den misstänkte eller en förhörsperson är migrant måste nu märkas med den särskilda koden ”291”). A bit lower down in the same article you'll find that 'the code is used as working material for the daily situation report. The situation report has been declared secret and should not be made public' ('Koden används som arbetsmaterial för den dagliga lägesbilden. Den dagliga lägesbilden är hemligstämplad varför det som står där inte ska lämnas ut'), followed a bit further down by 'everything which relates to migrants has to be kept secret and my only conclusion is that due to some politically motivated reason they do not dare to show the truth as it is, according to a person working at the police communications department' ('Allt som snuddar vid invandringsfrågan ska hållas hemligt och min enda slutsats är att man av något slags politiska skäl inte vågar visa verkligheten som den är, säger en anställd på polisens kommunikationsavdelning.').

That the police was not that successful in keeping their secrets is another story altogether. This has nothing to do with [my] replies in this thread [2] and everything with the fact that censorship does not fit in a democratic society. All it does is create even more suspicion, as shown by the reactions to the recent gang rape on Gotland where the police refuse to give details on the suspects they apprehended.

In short, openness trumps censorship every time.

[1] http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/polisen-hemlighaller-fakta-... [2] ...and what exactly is wrong with my replies in this thread, please elaborate...

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#83

Post by nostromo123 » Tue, Oct 18, 2016, 8:06 AM UTC

petriw wrote: post #64

nostromo123 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Because they are human beings" is a naive answer. My parents have worked 45 years as teachers in Romania, and now they get the equivalent of 300$ monthly combined in pension money. Romania is also not such a cheap country as you'd think. Now, seeing as how even non-refugee migrants from typical holiday countries in North Africa get lots more money than that per month in the German welfare system, we have two options…

Germany is free to spend their own money how they see fit. For example, by sending money to Romania via the EU budget. Perhaps Germany should instead focus on the pensioners in their country who have worked hard for 45 years and now live on the minimum pension.

"Perhaps Germany should instead focus on the pensioners in their country who have worked hard for 45 years and now live on the minimum pension."

Yeah, I agree -- that's exactly what should be done! :-) A great part of the Germans' anger at the way politics is dealing with the refugee crisis is the fact that, for decades, they were told that there was no money for schools / infrastructure / pensions / child rearing / etc. Now, suddenly, there's BILLIONS of € available for people who have never (and probably will never) paid into the social state money pot.

It's totally understandable that this creates resentment, even without taking into account the other issues surrounding the situation (culture clash, religious beliefs seen as a "higher law", slowly creeping no-go areas -- which don't exist, according to the government :P, etc.).

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#84

Post by nostromo123 » Tue, Oct 18, 2016, 8:08 AM UTC

barpet wrote: post #49

nostromo123 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Because they are human beings" is a naive answer. My parents have worked 45 years as teachers in Romania, and now they get the equivalent of 300$ monthly combined in pension money. Romania is also not such a cheap country as you'd think. Now, seeing as how even non-refugee migrants from typical holiday countries in North Africa get lots more money than that per month in the German welfare system, we have two options…

According to these people your parents are at fault :-). They should have either 1) worked in the German factories in Romania and get +200$ more 2) immigrate to Germany to work in the German factories and earn +2000$ more 3) immigrate to Germany and raise you as a German My point is. Romania should not feel responsible and should not do as Germany dictates. Romania is trying hard to overcome its corrupt post-communis…

"Romania should not feel responsible and should not do as Germany dictates." Yes, I agree, and that should be the case for the rest of Europe. The problem is, when the rest of Europe does not do what Merkel wants (=accept tons of refugees without any security checks or plan how to deal with them), they are accused of "inhumanity" and "lack of solidarity" ;-)