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Why kernel development still uses email

lwn.net

81–90 of 152 posts

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#81
post #66

tl;dr: my wish is a code review convention for git-notes and a friendly UI on top. If only Git would allow storing reviews and issues in the repo proper. Something like Git notes with conventions to refer to files/lines in a file/different revisions etc. Something similar to Fossil. This would solve half of the problem. The other half would be the UI layer. Now the reviews live in a database, outside of the repo, and…

Something like this https://github.com/google/git-appraise ?

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outlook loves messing with messages. "Detecting and removing" extra line breaks is one of its features

Outlook it probably the worst email client currently on the market and has been for the all of it's existence. It is my belief of the issue at lot of people have with email stems from Outlook. One example is the weird instance of top posting has made it hard to read many conversations and fostered a mentality of firing of quick response, reducing Outlook/email to a poor mans IM client. There's a ton of improvements t…

Nope, Lotus Notes takes that prize.

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#83
For continued decentralized operations something like https://github.com/google/git-appraise looks good. It's like Fossil-SCM's distributed tickets but for code review. It can also mirror to Gihtub and Phabricator and has a web interface too. Most importantly it doesn't break the decentralized aspect of git.

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#84
post #46

Is Gerrit really that terrible? I do agree that clicking through each file is a waste, but I love the ability to work on several different reviews and keep track of their different build statuses. Also, where I use it we have different levels of requirements for different branches (more people usually need to approve reviews on soon-to-be-released point branches). We use it for a large project in MLOCs but relatively…

Our team of 10 thinks Gerrit is great. I don't know how these other people are using Gerrit, but I don't recognize their description at all. Gerrit is very convenient if you take code reviews seriously.

  I do agree that clicking through each file is a waste
Well, firstly it is simply not true that you need to do that (you can accept/reject a review without having viewed any file at all), but secondly I'm totally fine with pressing ] 20 times for a review that touches 20 files. If the diff was a single unified diff, I'd have to press page-down a few times and those few keystrokes don't make much of a difference compared to the time taken to actually review code.

Article says:

  Gerrit, he said, makes patch submission quite hard
But without any explanation for why.

  It is hard to do local testing of patches in Gerrit,
It's easy to checkout a review to its own branch, so why do they feel that way?

  All discussions are done through a web interface.
Yeah, well, if using a web interface is a problem for you, then of course Gerrit is not a good tool for you. If you think the web interface doesn't add anything, then Gerrit is not a good tool for you. But those are not shortcomings of Gerrit, but simply a mismatch between your preferred workflow and your preferred way of interacting with code reviews.

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#85
post #12
post #8

So I get and agree with what he's saying about how GitHub duplicated email, but as a millennial who uses Vim, I find GitHub much more intuitive and useful than sending patches via email. In general, I disagree with the issues he has with GitHub - most of them are wishy washy disagreements that could easily be solved by adding things to GitHub or using a chrome extension. IMO the only real, logical reason they need to…

Just try to use GitHub Enterprise for 400 or more users. You get a bare metal image of the virtual machine with no replication, load balancing, etc. Nothing more for a huge price. I don't know how they scaling public version.

FWIW, Gitlab now has DC/OS (Mesosphere) support https://about.gitlab.com/2016/09/16/announcing-gitlab-and-me...

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#86

Are there any good references online about how to switch from Github-based collaboration to one based on email and patches? I'd like to give it a try and see how it feels.

Put mailman/majordomo and cgit/gitweb on a server, and a little front page for the project if you like. Use spamassassin with mailman, restrict allowed mail mime types to plain text and patches. Maybe use one of those tools that pick patches up from your mbox. Quilt is a good patch manager. I'd use emacs org mode for issues and todos.

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#87
post #8

So I get and agree with what he's saying about how GitHub duplicated email, but as a millennial who uses Vim, I find GitHub much more intuitive and useful than sending patches via email. In general, I disagree with the issues he has with GitHub - most of them are wishy washy disagreements that could easily be solved by adding things to GitHub or using a chrome extension. IMO the only real, logical reason they need to…

Given the kernel's history with proprietary tools, seems to me that Github's proprietary nature is reason enough for the kernel not to use it.

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outlook loves messing with messages. "Detecting and removing" extra line breaks is one of its features

Outlook it probably the worst email client currently on the market and has been for the all of it's existence. It is my belief of the issue at lot of people have with email stems from Outlook. One example is the weird instance of top posting has made it hard to read many conversations and fostered a mentality of firing of quick response, reducing Outlook/email to a poor mans IM client. There's a ton of improvements t…

I get a fair bit of top posted mail that has been sent from Apple Mail.

Another thing that Apple Mail does is to pick Unicode characters that don't map to ascii for quote and other punctuation characters.

Re: Why kernel development still uses email

#90
post #31

As always, it's worth pointing out that this is just about the Linux kernel. Different scale, different developer community, different code structure, different testing/CI methodology (i.e. practically none) than just about every other project out there. Email works for them - great. Other things work for other people - also great. Theirs is one interesting data point, but that's all it is.

>As always, it's worth pointing out that this is just about the Linux kernel. Different scale, different developer community, different code structure, different testing/CI methodology (i.e. practically none) than just about every other project out there. Eh? Patches on mailing lists is the "traditional" way for open source projects to operate. Many projects "still" do things this way - indeed I wish more projects di…

You're trying to refute a much stronger claim than I actually made. I was pointing out these differences to explain why what's best for the Linux kernel might not be best for another project. I wasn't saying email is bad, that it couldn't be the best for any other project, etc. The space of projects for which email is a good choice might be larger than just the Linux kernel, but it's much much smaller than the whole space of open-source projects as well. Given this community's tendency to cargo-cult whatever the highest-profile projects do without thinking about how different circumstances might affect applicability, I thought it was worth highlighting.
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