Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 98 posts

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#81

Post by vladimir-y »

Const-me wrote: post #78
vladimir-y wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also what about thermal photos (detecting thermal emission), is it possible?

Technically, I think that might be possible. The problem with that, no one except the US military and government knows for sure, whether they have far IR aka thermal imaging sensors on their satellites, or they don’t. Fortunately, there’s a solid body of evidence even without that secret data.

> Fortunately, there’s a solid body of evidence even without that secret data.

I doubt that, at least at the current state.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#82

Post by Const-me »

vladimir-y wrote: post #80
Const-me wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publically and commercially available imaginary (google earth, DigitalGlobe, etc.) just couldn’t see anything. They only sense some visible light, and/or near IR (a.k.a. short-wave infrared). You can view some specs there: https://www.digitalglobe.com/resources/satellite-information The clouds are completely opaque in those spectrum, so the land below clouds is completely invisible from those satellites. And the segm…

I didn't mean publicly and commercially available imaginary, but military, very well focused on the specific tasks.

Why are you certain military has those thermal images?

As far as I know, for many of their tasks (such as detecting missile launches) an infrared MASINT is sufficient.

If that’s the case, the system doesn’t produce images at all.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#83

Post by Const-me »

vladimir-y wrote: post #81
Const-me wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, I think that might be possible. The problem with that, no one except the US military and government knows for sure, whether they have far IR aka thermal imaging sensors on their satellites, or they don’t. Fortunately, there’s a solid body of evidence even without that secret data.

> Fortunately, there’s a solid body of evidence even without that secret data. I doubt that, at least at the current state.

Have you seen this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf6gJ8NDhYA

It includes a lot of photos, videos, intercepted phone calls, and other related data. The video is official, meaning the investigation team has evidences backing every statement made.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#84

Post by mikeash »

piva00 wrote: post #79
mikeash wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the title sounds like they just mean the missile was made in Russia, which was obvious from the start. (Even if the Ukranians had been responsible, their missiles were still made in Russia!) What they actually mean is that the missile was transported in from Russia shortly before the shootdown, and the launcher and remaining missiles went back to Russia not long after. But yes, the wording of the title is way t…

The way I read it is that it's more than it was made in Russia, that was pretty obvious, the title implies that they were brought from the Russian stockpile rather than the Ukrainian one.

I'm not sure which title you're commenting on, but if it's the current HN title, note that it's been changed. It previously matched the title of the linked article, which is "MH17 missile 'came from Russia', Dutch-led investigators say."

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#85

Post by readhn »

Dolores12 wrote: post #71
readhn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions are a dirty western political trick just so the politicians here can say "we did something". Sanctions are useless! Do you know who they affect? Regular people ONLY. Who have no say in politics anymore over there (elections are rigged). Facts: 1. Top Russian government officials transferred their assets to Europe / USA over the years. They have their families and kids living abroad and going to European/Ame…

Who is prime-minister of Russia?

Igor Shuvalov, officially worth half a billion dollars. Has properties all over europe, his wife flies their dogs (corgis) all over europe for dog shows ... on a private bombardier business jet... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3695649/Vladimir-Put...

nice to be a pro-P. politician in Russia... sanctions somehow skipped out on this poor bloke...

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#86

Post by readhn »

woodandsteel wrote: post #68
readhn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore. People there stopped dreaming in the 90's when the ugly side of "new Russia" showed its face. As i said election process is rigged, many folks there want change. please, do not believe 75%+ public support ratings spewed out by state propaganda machines. they are simp…

>Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore. It's still strong enough to grab Crimea, support the rebels in Eastern Ukraine, and intervene very effectively to rescue the regime in Syria. I for one would be very glad if its military finally collapsed. On a deeper level, the Russian people have never figured out…

Strong enough to grab Crimea from Ukraine? Its like stealing candy from a kid. Ukraine's military is in even worse shape. Syria is not exactly super power either.

The military machine over there can spit out "super weapon in development" stories all day - the truth is, nothing meaningful or threatening is happening, the funds for any meaningful development work are being stolen by the higher ups and channeled to the western banks through offshores (see "panama papers"). How do you think they buy mega yachts and houses in London, Spain, Greece?

Under Yeltsin there was no freedom (in fact there was never any freedom in Russia) - there was complete lawlessness. USSR fell and nothing was holding the thugs behind anymore. In the 90's thugs (+ ex-KGB) took over all business and then merged with and migrated into government.

Today thugs (KGB is a glorified mafia family) are running the entire country - its simple as that.

Russian people never had a word to say about any of this. Those who tried - got blown up or shot in the back.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#87

Post by readhn »

emp_zealoth wrote: post #67
readhn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore. People there stopped dreaming in the 90's when the ugly side of "new Russia" showed its face. As i said election process is rigged, many folks there want change. please, do not believe 75%+ public support ratings spewed out by state propaganda machines. they are simp…

I've actually been to Russia, through Petersburg, all the way to Solovetsky island, spent around a month there. I'd say that sure, people are nice on a personal level, but some topics were off limits because it would end badly. While i know that the russian military has issues with equipment that is literally falling apart, let's not kid ourselves the west doesn't have similar issues. ICBM's don't need any contempora…

If you understand who runs the country and how they operate then you will understand that they do not desire any serious conflicts with the west. West - is where they retire, keep their money and often families. They are not about to shoot themselves in the foot.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#88

Post by Dolores12 »

readhn wrote: post #85
Dolores12 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is prime-minister of Russia?

Igor Shuvalov, officially worth half a billion dollars. Has properties all over europe, his wife flies their dogs (corgis) all over europe for dog shows ... on a private bombardier business jet... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3695649/Vladimir-Put... nice to be a pro-P. politician in Russia... sanctions somehow skipped out on this poor bloke...

That's what i thought. You don't know who is prime minister of Russia. Just stop lying.

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#89

Post by emp_zealoth »

nazgob wrote: post #73
emp_zealoth wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually been to Russia, through Petersburg, all the way to Solovetsky island, spent around a month there. I'd say that sure, people are nice on a personal level, but some topics were off limits because it would end badly. While i know that the russian military has issues with equipment that is literally falling apart, let's not kid ourselves the west doesn't have similar issues. ICBM's don't need any contempora…

PAK FA is designed to compete with F-22 not F-35. F-35 is single engine, different machine.

There are only 185 F-22's and the lines are dismantled. If you are going to produce only F35's at a ratio almost 10:1 compared to F22... Then doesn't the fact that PAK FA is supposed to go agains vastly superior (to F35 for sure) F22 make you agree with me logically?

Re: MH17 missile 'brought in from Russia'

#90

Post by woodandsteel »

readhn wrote: post #86
woodandsteel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore. It's still strong enough to grab Crimea, support the rebels in Eastern Ukraine, and intervene very effectively to rescue the regime in Syria. I for one would be very glad if its military finally collapsed. On a deeper level, the Russian people have never figured out…

Strong enough to grab Crimea from Ukraine? Its like stealing candy from a kid. Ukraine's military is in even worse shape. Syria is not exactly super power either. The military machine over there can spit out "super weapon in development" stories all day - the truth is, nothing meaningful or threatening is happening, the funds for any meaningful development work are being stolen by the higher ups and channeled to the…

I agree Russia can never become a military superpower like it was, but its military is still strong enough to cause lots of problems in the world.

>Under Yeltsin there was no freedom (in fact there was never any freedom in Russia) - there was complete lawlessness. USSR fell and nothing was holding the thugs behind anymore. In the 90's thugs (+ ex-KGB) took over all business and then merged with and migrated into government.

Your comment is a good example of what I am talking about. Under Yeltsin there was little control by the government, so the population was free to organize and promote positive change. Instead they just let things stay bad, and then when a strong leader came along to eliminate the chaos, they give him their full support.

I have read a lot about Russia, and one reason Russians never organize from the bottom up is that Russians view themselves as an unruly people, and so they believe they need an authoritarian leader to tell them what to do and make them do it.

Another problem is that every Russian has very low trust in anyone outside their immediate circle, so they can't form good organizations, like civil society groups or an effective liberal political party.

All this is deeply embedded in Russian culture, as a consequence of many centuries of authoritarian leaders. What Russians need to do is study political philosophy, history and other cultures, and learn what they need to do differently.

Oh, and by the way, Putin has you exactly where he wants you. He would like you to be a supporter, but if people like you are instead cynical and don't try to understand what is needed for positive change, then he is free to stay in power for the rest of his life.

Post reply on HN