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The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

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Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#81

Post by terrywilcox »

zizzles wrote: post #54

In my eyes the VERY FACT that psychedelics like N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) even exist in the FIRST place (and take you on the experiences that they take you) can NOT be some sort of coincidence. I am not suggesting that they are some special all-knowing tool, but the sheer potency of DMT and the other-worldly-dimension-changing-states-of-mind that it yields when consumed can not be shrugged off as just another recr…

I'm having trouble with your logic.

The very fact that poisons exist in the first place cannot be a coincidence.

The very fact that pointy sticks exist in the first place cannot be a coincidence.

The very fact that razor blades exist in the first place cannot be a coincidence.

That may be so, but that's no reason to ingest them.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#82

Post by Alex3917 »

tejaswidp wrote: post #80
Kroniker wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite Terrence McKenna quotes: "Once you've gotten the message, hang up the phone." Hallucinogens may deliver you the message, but you need to know to take it once you have it, and not go crazy taking more and more. I have a friend who fell down that rabbit hole. Doesn't seem to end well.

Alan watts said that. Terrence Mckenna would probably say the opposite.

Terence McKenna used that quote a lot actually, but it was from Watts.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#83

Post by rosser »

ktRolster wrote: post #31

Be careful. These quotes from the article are kind of worrying: “Do you have doctors or anyone on hand who understands what’s happening on a pharmacological level if something goes wrong?” There was a tense silence, and then Little Owl replied, “We are healing on a vibrational level.” And: I asked how she could tell it wasn’t something requiring immediate medical intervention, and the [mediator] replied, “Intuition.”

Provided you screen for things like heart conditions, contra-indicated pharmaceutical or supplement usage, or some mental health issues, psychedelics are, on the whole, profoundly physically safe.

Not saying shit doesn't happen, but if you're going to the jungle to work with these plants, with a reputable practitioner, you're at vastly greater risk from things like snakes and mosquitoes — or even jaguars and alligators — than you are the plants, themselves.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#84

Post by lsd_throwaway »

oldmanjay wrote: post #44
steauengeglase wrote: post #36

While I don't doubt the psychological benefits of ayahuasca (or any hallucinogenic), the language of many of those advocating in the article set off red flags. "Format your harddrive", reminds of Arch Oboler's "Society of the Cosmos", something dreamed up by Evangelical hucksters who didn't see a future in peddling Jesus so they turned to techno speak to wring out the marks. "We manifest abundance wherever we go," so…

I feel like the sheer amount of bullshit surrounding these drugs leaves me with a duty to take heavy doses of psychedelics and proudly learn nothing but "boy that was fun"

There's a lot of bullshit - and most people are drawn in by pseudoscience nonsense. I was interested in seeing what people were talking about and the perspective change (also Sam Harris, lots of historical people, Huxley, What the Dormouse Said, everything I'd read etc.)

I tried it basically with as most preparation as you could possibly have and it wasn't enough. There's more detail in my posting history, but I'd suggest caution.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#85

Post by rconti »

stevetrewick wrote: post #79
rconti wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. It cannot be a coincidence that substances exist on this earth that alter our consciousness? Why not? There are all kinds of substances found naturally that can change the way you feel, change the way your body acts, kill you, make you hallucinate, whatever. Is it proof that there has to be a purpose behind them? I forgot what the term is, but is this not like the fallacy of believing there must be a cr…

Possibly the argument from personal incredulity?[0] Or maybe the Anthropic Principle? [1] Little column A, little column B? [0] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity#Perso... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

Anthropic principle, yes, thank you!

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#86

Post by Animats »

Kroniker wrote: post #51
steauengeglase wrote: post #36

While I don't doubt the psychological benefits of ayahuasca (or any hallucinogenic), the language of many of those advocating in the article set off red flags. "Format your harddrive", reminds of Arch Oboler's "Society of the Cosmos", something dreamed up by Evangelical hucksters who didn't see a future in peddling Jesus so they turned to techno speak to wring out the marks. "We manifest abundance wherever we go," so…

One of my favorite Terrence McKenna quotes: "Once you've gotten the message, hang up the phone." Hallucinogens may deliver you the message, but you need to know to take it once you have it, and not go crazy taking more and more. I have a friend who fell down that rabbit hole. Doesn't seem to end well.

In "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman", Feynman describes using LSD at the encouragement of John Lily, who claimed it would improve his thinking. Feynman tried it, and thought he'd solved a problem he was working on. As he was preparing to give a talk on the solution, he realized that he hadn't solved the problem; he'd only hallucinated that he had solved the problem. He was furious. That ended his experimentation with LSD. He wrote "I like to think, and I don't want to break the machine."

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#88

Post by apathy »

wavefunction wrote: post #9
apathy wrote: post #3

The classical comparison that comes to mind is this: LSD is like walking through the doors of perception. DMT (as in ayahuasca) is like being shot out of a cannon. I wonder if it has dawned on any of these "shamans" that a fistful of risperidone might be useful for the freakouts? Antipsychotics exist for a reason. Also, anyone on MAOIs is likely to have a very bad time, and people on SSRIs may not notice a thing (oth…

According to my friends and everything I've read on the subject, the cannon effect is achieved when you smoke DMT. Ayahuasca is DMT + MAOI inhibitors and is more like the usual experiences of orally ingesting LSD, psilocybin or mescaline.

I've only ever smoked it... No other frame of reference.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#89

Post by apathy »

cnp wrote: post #12
apathy wrote: post #3

The classical comparison that comes to mind is this: LSD is like walking through the doors of perception. DMT (as in ayahuasca) is like being shot out of a cannon. I wonder if it has dawned on any of these "shamans" that a fistful of risperidone might be useful for the freakouts? Antipsychotics exist for a reason. Also, anyone on MAOIs is likely to have a very bad time, and people on SSRIs may not notice a thing (oth…

> The whole enterprise seems very poorly thought out. That depends on which circle you sit with. Some of them are straight up dangerous (meaning, whoever is running it has not been through the proper training), while others are incredibly well-organized and safe. And "freak-outs" are oftentimes the point, not meant to be suppressed or dealt with, but guided through by a competent shaman / group. You get to a certain…

Right, but if people are getting stabbed it's generally time to put an end to the offending freakouts.
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