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Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

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Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#81

Post by Freak_NL »

lately wrote: post #34
segmondy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

People just want to find some noble reason for their behaviour. Pirating is wrong, but I do it because I don't have the money to spend.

Then why are you labelling it with the negative moral qualifier wrong? It may be illegal or considered reprehensible by the society you live in (i.e, someone else may call it wrong), but why would you do it if you consider it wrong?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#82

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

6d6b73 wrote: post #47
gakada wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a breach of the contract between designer and the company. If you quote someone a rate, they agree, you do the work, but they don't pay you, then you can sue them regardless of whether a copyrightable work was created. Copyright infringement without breach of contract is more like people stealing the Transmit logo https://panic.com/extras/ripoff/

Isn't it breach of contract when you copy tv show, when it clearly states that copying of that show is prohibited? When you buy that dvd, book or whatever it is, you agree to the 'terms' which usually say - copy in any form shape or size prohibited.

Actually, when you buy a dvd or book, you usually aren't bound by any terms in any booklet acompanying it or printed in the book or whatever. If at all, you are bound by any terms that you agreed to (which in particular would require you to be aware of them and to have had the opportunity to read them and all that). Which in the case of a typical sales contract that's the result of buying something in a shop means that pretty much the only thing you are bound by is your agreement to pay the price that you agreed to. Stuff that you get to read afterwards cannot become part of the contract that you previously agreed to unless you explicitly were to agree to adding those additional terms afterwards. Also, that sales contract is between you and the shop.

So, no, actually, whatever you do with that book or dvd, if you paid the price you agreed to, you almost always can do with it whatever you like, unless it is illegal. But just as using a chainsaw you bought and paid for to murder someone is not a breach of contract, so is not copying a book you bought.

And in any case, a breach of contract is not theft. It's a breach of contract. That's why we have a separate term for it. Just as destruction of property is not theft. It's destruction of property.

Plus, if you download an unauthorized copy somewhere, you most likely don't have a contract with anyone regarding the thing that you are downloading, so you could not possibly be in violation of the terms of that non-existent contract.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#83

Post by Dolores12 »

6d6b73 wrote: post #21
guelo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but copyright infringement is not "theft".

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

1) If you are hired by a company and did not get paid it has nothing to do with copyright. 2) If you hired by a company and created some work you never owned a copyright.

In case of movies, i didn't hire anyone to create the movie. Also, i would never buy that movie so they lost nothing.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#84

Post by 6d6b73 »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #69
6d6b73 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're not stealing in a sense that you're taking something physical, you are stealing in a sense that you are not compensating author for their work. Let's say you are graphics designer. You are hired to create logo for a company. Company likes your work and they just copy the file you've sent to them but they decided they are not going to pay you. Are they stealing from you or is it "just" copyright infringem…

Sure, and when I don't hire you, that means that you won't have money to buy food, so you will starve. So, I am not murdering you in the sense that I am shooting you, but I am murdering you in the sense that I am not hiring you. Words have commonly accepted definitions, and copyright or contract violation simply does not fall under theft. "I think it's bad, theft is bad, therefore, it's theft" just is an incoherent a…

Oh, so if you go to a dealer and took the car that you never wanted to buy because it's too expensive, only for a one drive, without asking anyone you were not stealing because this would not deprive anyone of any money?

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#85

Post by Nelson69 »

duozerk wrote: post #43
segmondy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, you have no right to someone's else own work. If you don't want to pay HBO NOW to watch a single TV show. No problem. If you do however pirate their show, then that's stealing and the owner has a right to call you a thief. If HBO decides to charge $1,000 per episode, that would be very outrageous, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to steal their show. BTW, I know the pain, I really want to watch Sh…

No, it isn't "stealing". You're not depriving them of the content, you're copying it. And you're not even depriving them of the price they charge to access that content, unless you would've bought it had it not been available through piracy. And that's I think really the exception, not the rule. I know I download a hell of a lot of movies, tv shows, etc. that I would definitely never watch if they were not available…

Sure, it's all virtual, you're not actually 'stealing' their money since you weren't actually going to pay for it anyways, but if we're pedantic about it you are depriving them their rights. As the owner, they can copyright it, they can specify the terms by which you're allowed to view it or not view it. They can decide to not let you view it. You are taking that right from them. You are saying your right to access the content is more important than their rights, it's pretty simple.

Sure, it's a big faceless corporation that already has billions of dollars, so it's as offensive. but it's basically the same thing as a GPL violation. Whenever a big corporation steals, err, I mean 'copies,' GPL code and refuses to give the output away, they aren't actually stealing, they were never going to contribute anything anyways...

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#86

Post by jventura »

muddyrivers wrote: post #46

I have family members who are writers. By association, we know many writers. They are in a dilemma. From talking to them, I think they agree, in principle, that books ought to be "distributed, [...], spread abroad, given to all, given cheaply, given at cost price, given for nothing." They are book-lovers in essence. In reality, most writers can hardly make a living from writing. Their book deals are essentially decid…

I understand perfectly what you're trying to say here. As someone who published some papers, wrote a simple book, and write software, I really wished I did not have to participate in this market economy and could build things and give them for free.. That is why I understand the reason for things such as the Universal Basic Income..

However, it is not as the world currently works, unfortunately.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#87

Post by Wildgoose »

6d6b73 wrote: post #77
Wildgoose wrote: post #55

I used an App on my old iPod to BUY and read the first in a series of books. I then tried to purchase the second volume, only to have the transaction declined because I don't live in North America. I wrote to Penguin USA to complain about this, pointing out that the book I wished to purchase was freely available on download sites so Why were they refusing to sell it to me? Their response was that I should find a US b…

"I wanted to buy copy a famous painting from the museum for the market price but they did not agree to sell it to me because they don't ship to my state. So I drove there and took it when nobody was watching. How is that not a theft?" That's pretty much what it boils down to.

Don't be ridiculous. A better analogy would be that the museum sold JPEGs of a work of art you wanted to use as a desktop background, but refused to sell one to a different state. So instead you downloaded a copy of the photograph.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#88

Post by Mithaldu »

globuous wrote: post #74
Mithaldu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who doesn't only preserve media, but also makes it more accessible. Specifically DVDs of the non-english sort are digitized, translated, and subtitles added, without removing any of the existing content. If there are space limitations, existing content is slightly compressed (for example audio commentary tracks). Additionally great care is taken to strictly adhere to (or even make adherent to) industr…

Going off of that, it'd be really cool to have a wiki for movie transcripts that covers multiple languages. I just searched real quick for a wiki for transcripts and found transcripts.wikia [0] but it doesn't seem to have transcripts translated in other languages. Would such a wiki for transcripts be legal anyway ? [0] http://transcripts.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_VI:_Retu...

https://subscene.com/ are pretty good. Lots of spam and duplicates, but you can find most anything. They probably don't get much trouble since they don't distribute actual movies.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#89

Post by norea-armozel »

6d6b73 wrote: post #77
Wildgoose wrote: post #55

I used an App on my old iPod to BUY and read the first in a series of books. I then tried to purchase the second volume, only to have the transaction declined because I don't live in North America. I wrote to Penguin USA to complain about this, pointing out that the book I wished to purchase was freely available on download sites so Why were they refusing to sell it to me? Their response was that I should find a US b…

"I wanted to buy copy a famous painting from the museum for the market price but they did not agree to sell it to me because they don't ship to my state. So I drove there and took it when nobody was watching. How is that not a theft?" That's pretty much what it boils down to.

Nope, your logic fails on all counts.

Re: Book Piracy as Peer Preservation

#90

Post by Mithaldu »

banterfoil wrote: post #7
Mithaldu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who doesn't only preserve media, but also makes it more accessible. Specifically DVDs of the non-english sort are digitized, translated, and subtitles added, without removing any of the existing content. If there are space limitations, existing content is slightly compressed (for example audio commentary tracks). Additionally great care is taken to strictly adhere to (or even make adherent to) industr…

I absolutely love that, and hope that I can one day contribute in a similar way. It's a shame that these people get clumped in the same camp as that college kid who watches bootleg theatre films just so they don't have to pay for an admission ticket. There is a community that attracts these people: https://www.reddit.com/r/datahoarder

Yeah, said friend has long overtaken those and is working with way more professional and safe storage solutions than anything i see browsing over that reddit. :)

Though that's secondary to the focus on quality and value of the material.

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