Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#81

Post by khuey » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #12

ravenstine wrote: post #9

Japanese food is way overpriced nowadays, and hardly "japanese". You have to pay a ridiculous amount for actual Japanese food; anything mid-priced or below is covered in fried breading, mayonnaise, and even jalapenos. I'm not against "fusion" cuisine, but it sucks when there's so much of that it makes it difficult to get the real thing. Chinese food in America much cheaper because the ingredients are much less costly…

"Chinese" food in America isn't even "Chinese" food most of the time. It's "Oriental-inspired" at best. If I go to a Chinese restaurant in the U.S, I expect none of my dishes to be anything that would exist in a "typical" Chinese restaurant. Hell, most of the food is considered American food by Chinese people because it is so dissimilar to actual Chinese cuisine. If I go to a Japanese restaurant I can expect them to…

This definitely depends on where you live. Most major cities seem to support at least a few "authentic" Chinese places (and some, like the West Coast cities, NYC, etc, are loaded to the gills with them).

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#82

Post by dmoy » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 7:54 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #64

beat wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minneapolis has an amazing food scene, driven by localvore ingredients (we're farm country) and hipster-casual "fine dining". It's a hard town for traditional fine-dining restaurants. The really good eating is split between the hipster places and southeast Asian ethnic restaurants. For $50/person, you can get a shockingly good meal here, and you can wear jeans and a t-shirt eating it.

I hope your comment was dictated and you meant $15 / person? $50 is ludicrously expensive.

Especially for Minneapolis...

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#83

Post by InclinedPlane » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 8:00 AM UTC

ricree wrote: post #70

beat wrote: post #7

There's a formula for restaurant finance - 30% ingredients, 30% labor, 30% rent and other overhead, and (hopefully) 10% profit. This is broadly true across the industry, at all price points. Much of the higher cost of "nice" restaurants is higher quality ingredients (this is especially true of pricey sushi-dominated Japanese, which pays a premium for the best fish). An additional cost is prestigious locations. Becaus…

Anecdotally, I've heard from a number of people that catering is one of the larger profit centers for restaurants that do it, with the dine-in service acting almost like a marketing tool, or sometimes even a loss leader.

This is dependent on the level of fine dining and the locale. A high-end restaurant in an affluent, high density area like LA or NYC can support very high prices while still keeping packed day in day out. And that leads to a lot of money coming in (five figures a day easily). Which is why, incidentally, there tend to be more such restaurants in such places.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#84

Post by et-al » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 8:47 AM UTC

stephenr wrote: post #59

kstenerud wrote: post #20

"With China, [Americans] are still filled with this funny disdain, that it is about cheap and crappy stuff, including about cheap and crappy food" Because until very recently, it HAS been cheap and crappy food in America. "Chinese food" has traditionally meant the chop suey that you take out from Dragon Inn (and in many areas, it STILL means that). I grew up with a severe dislike for Chinese food. It tasted like I wa…

> but Chinese cuisine has a long Western history to live down. a) don't lump the rest of the 'western' world in with America. "Chinese food" in Australia is of course not authentic, but by local tastes is usually delicious. b) implying something has to "live down" implies that there is fault with the item itself. Good Chinese food (or even good chinese-inspired food, rather than authentic chinese) didn't force Americ…

I think the parent meant "live down" in the American perception of Chinese cuisine as being just "chop suey" and other greasy dishes.

The problem is that much of the early Chinese food cooked in America was by miners/railroad workers who had few other job opportunities. It was not until the late 1960s and 70s when actual chefs came to the States[0].

[0] http://time.com/4211871/chinese-food-history/

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#85

Post by PhasmaFelis » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 8:52 AM UTC

js2 wrote: post #49

beat wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minneapolis has an amazing food scene, driven by localvore ingredients (we're farm country) and hipster-casual "fine dining". It's a hard town for traditional fine-dining restaurants. The really good eating is split between the hipster places and southeast Asian ethnic restaurants. For $50/person, you can get a shockingly good meal here, and you can wear jeans and a t-shirt eating it.

For $50 I'd hope so! That's an expensive meal sans alcohol. I've had great meals at every price point, but above $25/person I'm expecting a good meal, above $50/person a great meal, and above $75-100 an exempelary meal.

Yeah, when I think of great cheap local food, I'm thinking of e.g. this awesome Cajun place where you can get a big plate of amazing chicken etouffee, garlic bread, and a beer for around $10. I might go as far as "cheap for what you get" for a truly great $20/person place. $50/person may be delicious, but it's not "cheap" by any reasonable definition.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#86

Post by et-al » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 8:54 AM UTC

garyclarke27 wrote: post #77

Interesting and crazy that Italian food is so high, considering it has the cheapest ingredients, hence why pizza restaurants are the most profitable I suppose. For me Thai is easily my favourite cuisine, yet ranked bottom, I don't think this is true in UK, where is average price, though like US Japanese is most expensive and French second. For me French is way over rated esepecially Michelin starred French restaurant…

Italian food nailed the ambiance and service down. Date night? Italian food. It's a safe bet your dinner date will enjoy it, there's a waiter who's friendly and helpful, and cloth napkins!

But yes, the price of good pizza is nuts in the States. I'm in Berlin right now and a damn good pizza at Il Casolare is a humble 10€, whereas in San Francisco, it'd easily cost at least $20 (and you'd have to stomach a pretentious story as well).

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#87

Post by PhasmaFelis » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 9:02 AM UTC

beat wrote: post #31

whack wrote: post #26

I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but prices are set by a combination of both demand and supply. The article is focusing mostly on the demand side, but the supply factor makes a huge difference as well. There are significant immigrant populations from Mexico/China/India/Thailand, which means that someone opening a restaurant catering to these cuisines, can hire "ethnic chefs" at an affordable price. In contra…

Modern French cuisine was codified by Escoffier. Not only did he nail down what haute cuisine was in terms of technique, he codified a process of restaurant management, based on the military chain of command. Escoffier trained up-and-coming chefs on how to structure large kitchens (up to hundreds of staffers) and how to handle budget and marketing, to get the "right" customers. In other words, he invented the modern…

> That's why waiters at such fancy places seem like they're insulting you - they're actually insulting you! Because of this, the restaurants are expensive. Of course they're expensive. Not because the food is superior, but because the kind of people who would eat there expect it. At the best, putting prices on the menu is a faux pas. If you have to think about the cost, you don't belong.

It sounds like you're saying that the purpose of French restaurants is to signal your wealth/social class, and if you want good food that's worth what you're paying, you should go somewhere else.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#88

Post by barrkel » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 9:08 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #87

beat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern French cuisine was codified by Escoffier. Not only did he nail down what haute cuisine was in terms of technique, he codified a process of restaurant management, based on the military chain of command. Escoffier trained up-and-coming chefs on how to structure large kitchens (up to hundreds of staffers) and how to handle budget and marketing, to get the "right" customers. In other words, he invented the modern…

> That's why waiters at such fancy places seem like they're insulting you - they're actually insulting you! Because of this, the restaurants are expensive. Of course they're expensive. Not because the food is superior, but because the kind of people who would eat there expect it. At the best, putting prices on the menu is a faux pas. If you have to think about the cost, you don't belong. It sounds like you're saying…

And on the counterpoint, the best meals of my life have mostly been in the French style, usually with matched French wines too.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#89

Post by barrkel » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 9:15 AM UTC

DougMerritt wrote: post #44

samatman wrote: post #32

"And when Latin American and Asian food also become American food, it will be a signal that the country has at last embraced a new generation of Americans." I found this peculiar, given that the US has no fewer than four distinct regional "Mexican" cuisines, not found in Mexico. These are Tex-Mex, California Mexican food (e.g. the fabulous Mission burrito), New Mexican food, and American Mexican food (think chimichan…

Excellent point. But perhaps they meant "Latin American other than Mexico". Here in Silicon Valley, there might be Argentinian, Brazilian, Chilean, etc. restaurants that I'm unaware of, but even including the north bay, surely very few. And in most of America, predictably there'd be none in most towns and cities (aside from New York, Miami, etc.). Which is pretty different than Mexican, which is indeed widely embrace…

FWIW I've never seen ketchup in a London Mexican restaurant. Most make the bulk of their trade on Mission style burritos and similar. It's Mexican viewed through a West Coast American filter.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#90

Post by com2kid » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 9:44 AM UTC

yompers888 wrote: post #78

stephenr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Chinese" food is, in America, is designed to be tasty and relatively inexpensive. Authentic Chinese food isn't as appealing or palatable to most Americans. Do you really think any other culture/country's food is 'authentic' in the US? Do you somehow think "Outback Steakhouse" is anything like Australians eat? Do you somehow think Thai restaurants are anywhere close to authentic anywhere but Thailand? I've said it…

I'd argue that a lot of Chinese food is well-suited to American tastes. Certainly not the Guangdong stuff and the cheap animal parts (looking at you, pig and chicken feet), but almost everything else. At very least, everything about Sichuan and Hunan food seems to translate well except for the very spicy fish stew.

> except for the very spicy fish stew.

At least two Chinese restaurants near me serve this, and it has become one of my favorite dishes. ;)

Then again I'll give almost anything a go.