Go Terminal_ Elegant and Efficient Linux Terminal • Hacker News Board

Re: Go Terminal_ Elegant and Efficient Linux Terminal

#81

Post by KirinDave » Wed, Jul 13, 2016, 7:10 PM UTC

erlehmann_ wrote: post #79

KirinDave wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Powershell accomplishes this by making the pipes pass tagged objects around containing streams. This actually has a lot of nice properties when you go to manipulate the objects programatically. And it's a logical extension of the UNIX stream model, where in reality you're passing around a whole heck of a lot more than text when you type 'cat | sed'. You're passing environment context, multiple streams, etc. The idea…

I do not understand what is the problem when using Docker. Please explain?

It's somewhat involved, but life is a lot easier if your Docker containers just log everything to stdout, when you go to ship software that uses them.

Stderr is sort of an annoying detail. Especially given how inconsistent output to it is and how it has different rules for how output flushes.

Re: Go Terminal_ Elegant and Efficient Linux Terminal

#82

Post by HeavyStorm » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 12:38 PM UTC

placeybordeaux wrote: post #70

KirinDave wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? Historically most terminal implementations have been fraught with performance issues. We'd moved off xterm to aterm and then back. We'd been hesitant to adopt gnome-terminal because of the GTK+ chrome then saw its font kit actually rendered faster. What most people don't get is how absurdly well-optimized the text rendering and reflowing is for web browsers. With care, people can get modern cellphone browsers to…

Maybe I am wrong, but I have yet to see a modern browser take anywhere near as little memory of CPU as a modern terminal emulator. There is also the matter that no matter how much optimization you put into something you can't recoup the cost of the fundamental design choices you went with. Choosing something with less power can solve a lot of headaches.

What machine are you running your terminals in? I have as little as 8 GB of RAM, and more CPU power than I could dream a decade ago.

Don't you think that maybe you are using your past environment to judge a current experience?

Visual Studio Code is based on Electron and works wonderfully. Doesn't feel bloated, it's quite fast to open and I haven't felt a slow down in any meaningful way.

I'm not imposing my computer specs to anyone (and I'm using vs code in a client machine in any case), but we have generally a lot more horsepower now and the discussion of performance might mean little for a desktop app (heck, we are running javascript on the server nowadays!).

Re: Go Terminal_ Elegant and Efficient Linux Terminal

#83

Post by HeavyStorm » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 12:49 PM UTC

nameless912 wrote: post #22

themartorana wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have several devs in the office that have to use the terminal a grand total of 2 times a month, and even then I installed some shortcuts for them to make using adb easier. Being able to build a simple interface on top of the few commands they use, so they don't have to remember flags, argument orders, etc., would be advantageous to us all (and require less support on my part). Also, what is possibly wrong with some…

There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make money for your work. The problem, honestly, is that a good terminal is a solved problem (c.f. urxvt, which is perfect in every way). Charging people for one would be like charging people for a vim clone. Why charge for an inferior product when someone's already created perfection? ;) Second of all, learning shell scripting is an almost ridiculously important skill…

To say the problem is solved you must first state it.

Maybe your terminal problem is solved (mine is), but their problem may be different.

Would you tell people who made chrome to quit back then, because the browser problem was solved? (IE, Opera, Mozilla Firefox) Or maybe tell Google to abandon drive and Microsoft onedrive and all that smaller companies like SugarSync to drop it because Dropbox has "solved it"?

This also means that indeed your previous question is good: it'd be nice if the author could explain the use case and business case for his terminal, seeing that we have a number of others around. (Google explained why Chrome with a comics thingy and got me immediately). But your questioning sounded like the author was already in err.

Re: Go Terminal_ Elegant and Efficient Linux Terminal

#84

Post by odbol_ » Sat, Jul 16, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

HeavyStorm wrote: post #82

placeybordeaux wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am wrong, but I have yet to see a modern browser take anywhere near as little memory of CPU as a modern terminal emulator. There is also the matter that no matter how much optimization you put into something you can't recoup the cost of the fundamental design choices you went with. Choosing something with less power can solve a lot of headaches.

What machine are you running your terminals in? I have as little as 8 GB of RAM, and more CPU power than I could dream a decade ago. Don't you think that maybe you are using your past environment to judge a current experience? Visual Studio Code is based on Electron and works wonderfully. Doesn't feel bloated, it's quite fast to open and I haven't felt a slow down in any meaningful way. I'm not imposing my computer s…

So, everything you do on a computer is instant? Oh, it's not? Could it be because all those little inefficiencies add up to a big slow mess when all programmers operate under the assumption "oh I have 8GB RAM all to myself, no need to write efficient code!"