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Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#81

Post by dietrichepp »

gwern wrote: post #63
dietrichepp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps from bad decisions? As I stay awake, the quality of my code drops pretty fast, social decisions get worse, I say the wrong thing to people, et cetera.

This is question-begging. 'We get fatigued because we get fatigued.'

That's conflating two different senses of fatigue. "We feel tired to prevent us from making mistakes when we have been awake a long time."

That separation of the different senses of fatigue is the core of the article. Fatigue is both a feeling and a state, which we confuse because they are connected. But you can give someone drugs, like diphenhydramine or caffeine, which change the feeling of fatigue without changing the underlying state which that feeling normally reflects.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#82

Post by cpncrunch »

mamon wrote: post #48
halayli wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about mental fatigue? The more you workout your brain the more it needs to rest. How would you like your brain to tell you that it needs to rest other than feeling fatigue? I find myself consistently productive over long spans without a burnout effect when I am sleeping at consistent hours, and working for consistent hours a day. When I overwork my productivity becomes inconsistent so I stopped doing that. I lea…

I heard different story: there is no such thing as "mental fatigue". The reason why we get tired when doing office work is: - our muscles need to support our body while sitting. - most mental work includes some dose of stress, which is a real reason of fatigue. Buy yourself best chair you can find plus do stress-free, enjoyable work and you can go 16 hours straight, without fatigue. At least that's how I felt about a…

I think it depends on the task. Playing Quake doesn't require significant amounts of creativity or learning, in the same way that programming or learning a new language would. We know that the brain needs sleep in order to process new memories, so that may be one factor in mental fatigue.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#83

Post by cpncrunch »

oxryly1 wrote: post #65

This is an interesting method of building resiliency -- or anti-fragility -- into a complex system without adding complexity via a system of feedback for each component (or some other such cleverness). (I.E.: Have an overarching "intense activity" timer or measuring device signal that the system is likely to suffer breakdown... just because it probably will.) The key intelligence here comes from the fact that the hum…

I suspect it has been around quite a while in evolutionary terms, and isn't just in humans. All animals need to be careful that they don't overheat, go without water, break a bone, etc. (However if another animal is chasing you, it makes sense to turn off the inhibiting signal). The brain regions involved are common to many animals AFAIK.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#84

Post by cpncrunch »

towlejunior wrote: post #9

If the claim is that muscles don't fatigue, then I am skeptical. In college, I took a weightlifting class with a bunch of athletes in it. One day, we did lunges (no weight) around and around, in a line like ants. Nearing the end, my brain thought I was totally fine. I cannot stress that enough. Bam, like a light switch, my legs went from 60% strength to 2% three quarters of the way through the last lap. Had the instr…

> If the claim is that muscles don't fatigue, then I am skeptical.

No, the article isn't claiming that at all. It is saying there is an extra system in the brain which generates the sensation of fatigue. This usually happens before the muscles reach their limit (and this has been demonstrated).

As others have noted, it may not have been your muscles. Why would your muscles suddenly go from 60% strength to 2%? I suspect either it was central fatigue (which can also manifest as muscle weakness), or perhaps your form was wrong on the last lap.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#85

Post by cpncrunch »

ilaksh wrote: post #8

I can buy the conclusion except that I believe you can only usually tweak performance in small degrees without actually over-exerting yourself, since the central nervous system _is_ in fact an expert on what you are capable of doing safely.

I think the point is that you can keep increasing performance in small degrees, so it's kind of like training your brain to allow small incremental performance boosts by saying "see, I didn't get injured or die, so give me another 1% speed". Of course, sometimes this does actually result in injury, so if you want to be safe it's probably best not pushing too far.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#86

Post by sitkack »

mrexroad wrote: post #25

My first thought was, "oh, reminds me of the SEAL's 40% rule... so if they're trained to ignore that limit, why don't they get hurt?" Then, in first google result [1], I read this: “I first met “SEAL” at a 100-mile run in San Diego and I was running this race as part of a six-person relay team with friends and he was running the entire race by himself,” Itzler said. “Who is this guy? I’ve never seen anything like it.…

Never realized that I code like a navy seal. Algorthims, Devops, Emacs, every fix is hot.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#87

Post by ArkyBeagle »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #78
ArkyBeagle wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this come from in the larger culture? I can see why people who are soldiers or ... athletes at the varsity or pro level might be interested in it but why would anyone want to basically injure themselves as a ... hobby? I've worked with runners who had serious injury, soccer players who came in with bruises that you'd associate with a severe beating... I'm thinking "geez, it's gonna suck when you're 62." Be…

As someone who has injured himself for a "hobby" a number of times: My "hobby" is a means for me to challenge myself, to push myself to my limits, to see what I am capable of and take my measure as a human being. It is a means for me to learn how to overcome fear, pain and doubt. It provides an objective haven when the subjective world is upside down.

Thank you for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense.

I use things other than athletic performance for that, but I've come to realize that I was nudged that way a lot by adults when I was younger.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#88

Post by cpncrunch »

known wrote: post #39

Is it same for procrastination?

Possibly this might explain procrastination:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Maarten_Boksem/publicat...

It seems to involve the same brain regions that Noakes identified as being involved in physical fatigue. However rather than protecting against damage, its function appears to be to protect against unnecessary expenditure of energy.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#89

Post by sn9 »

lj3 wrote: post #61
saiya-jin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are sports which will cripple your health in long run, almost guaranteed. many contact sports, it football comes to mind. some of my high school classmates are semi-cripples because of it (they can walk around, and that's about it). depression can be seen in their eyes - once you know what having a healthy and strong body means, and then losing it forever. I've done my share of team/contact sports in my youth.…

> there are sports which will cripple your health in long run, almost guaranteed. many contact sports, it football comes to mind. Did you play football? The danger of permanent crippling injury has been blown way out of proportion by helicopter parents and the news. Of all the kids I played with and all the kids I coached (volunteer), only one of them ever wound up partially crippled. That kid in particular would rou…

You're using anecdotes to counter statistics?

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#90

Post by lj3 »

sn9 wrote: post #89
lj3 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are sports which will cripple your health in long run, almost guaranteed. many contact sports, it football comes to mind. Did you play football? The danger of permanent crippling injury has been blown way out of proportion by helicopter parents and the news. Of all the kids I played with and all the kids I coached (volunteer), only one of them ever wound up partially crippled. That kid in particular would rou…

You're using anecdotes to counter statistics?

What statistics? Nobody's provided any at this point in the conversation. If you have some, feel free to share. Otherwise, I'm going to downvote your comment as unproductive.
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