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Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

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Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#81

Post by sigmar »

defen wrote: post #78
sigmar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see no reason Trump cannot hire advisors just as experienced in the field as Hillary. The "he can get experts too" argument is fine, except for the fact he has publicly spoken out saying all experts are "terrible." >Referring to criticism that he could be better schooled on matters of foreign policy, Trump suggested he would do just as well, if not better than the current or past administrations without anyone pro…

How is that different than Obama claiming he knew more about policies on any particular issue than his policy directors? http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/81895_Page2.html People who run for president by definition have huge egos, it's not limited to Trump.

In context, that seems like a pretty self-aware comment he made when he was interviewing his political director[1] as a warning to the man of his own confidence. But I would agree, Presidential candidate always have a large ego. I was only offering up an example of Trump's mistrust of "all experts" (at least in terms of foreign policy).

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/11/17/battle-plans

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#82

Post by forgottenpass »

throwawaysocks wrote: post #30
GrumpyYoungMan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? An increase in citizens trained in a highly intellectually demanding field and encouraging immigration of some of the best and brightest of other nations makes it more than worthwhile to pursue.

> So? So, the point of these programs isn't citizen enrichment. The point is job training. Consider: philosophy is also intellectually demanding, but I don't see "Philosophy for All" educational initiatives. I think a lot of people who oppose CS Ed investments are self-interested, but that doesn't mean there aren't genuine problems with government policies that tie themselves too closely to today's labor market. If w…

If we're not careful, "learn to code and you'll have a job" will be tomorrow's equivalent of "get a college degree and you'll have a job".

It already is. It's not a matter of if the bottom will drop out of STEM=JOBS, but a matter of when.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#83

Post by talmand »

sigmar wrote: post #69
talmand wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Hillary is out of her depth on the subject as well. Her advisors, on the other hand, may not. I see no reason Trump cannot hire advisors just as experienced in the field as Hillary.

>I see no reason Trump cannot hire advisors just as experienced in the field as Hillary. The "he can get experts too" argument is fine, except for the fact he has publicly spoken out saying all experts are "terrible." >Referring to criticism that he could be better schooled on matters of foreign policy, Trump suggested he would do just as well, if not better than the current or past administrations without anyone pro…

Just because he's publicly stated all experts are terrible doesn't mean he doesn't have them now nor will not in the future. If he didn't listen to other people and their opinions then I seriously doubt he would be where he is today. He's just letting his ego speak for him.

As for your quote, I could easily explain that is him saying he would do better than previous administrations without anyone providing input, before he seeks such input. He will do better without them, and he could do even better than that with them.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#84

Post by sologoub »

dragonwriter wrote: post #73
sologoub wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For it to be a golden ticket, someone has to hire them at a good salary. If the person went to 4th rate school and has no skills to compete in the job market, it's not really a golden ticket and not a drain on the economy as they don't qualify for a lot of things. On the other hand, if the person is capable and can attract and sustain a lucrative career, they'll contribute to economy and taxes. As someone else mentio…

> H1-B was originally meant to fill in labor gaps, not reduce costs... No, the people involved in making the decision knew enough basic economic to recognize that "filling gaps in supply for commodity X" and "reducing the market-clearing cost of commodity X" are exactly the same thing . It was sold as the former, because to general public that sounds better.

Good point, will edit.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#85

Post by kaitai »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #79
kaitai wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Colin Powell?

I agree with the parent poster: anyone . I held a clearance for 20 years. If I (or anybody else who wasn't well-connected) had pulled this stunt, I'd be in prison right now. And I would have likely been detained in a cell until trial. This was made abundantly clear in the annual security refresher training and briefings that all cleared personnel undergo, in addition to the original ones you receive upon being cleare…

I understand the sentiment, I just don't understand the facts. People keep saying "if anyone but Clinton did this they'd be in prison", but there's a bunch of people who used private servers and had email reclassified and they're not in prison. Karl Rove used RNC servers, although it sounds like the email was all archived with the White House; that doesn't seem to address the initial security concerns though.

Forgive me for being dense, I just really don't understand how the first statement (these actions would put anyone else in jail) can be true with the number of counterexamples (people who did similar things, aren't in jail, aren't Clinton). I'm a mathematician. I'm stuck. So is it about being well-connected, as MrZongle2's most proximate comment says, or is it about being Clinton?

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#86

Post by krapp »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #77
krapp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But I can't help but immediately think that this was the candidate who disregarded the sound advice of the IT and security professionals in the State Department and had an entirely different bunch of people set up a faulty alternative email service for her own convenience. As opposed to Donald Trump, who is known for his IT security savvy and who would obviously never bend or break the rules for his personal benefit…

"As opposed to Donald Trump, who is known for his IT security savvy and who would obviously never bend or break the rules for his personal benefit..." Well 1) two wrongs don't make a right, 2) we're talking about Clinton, specifically, since the story is about her announced tech plan and 3) as far as I know, no IT-related investigations have been launched against Trump. But besides all that ....uh, good point?

>1) two wrongs don't make a right

true

> 2) we're talking about Clinton, specifically, since the story is about her announced tech plan

also her technical incompetence and willingness to ignore advice and regulations when it's convenient. I don't think it's out of line to point out those propensities in Trump as well.

> 3) as far as I know, no IT-related investigations have been launched against Trump.

No, but he has been sued numerous times over his business dealings, and elsewhere in this thread it's pointed out that he considers all experts to be "terrible."

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#87

Post by amyjess »

jordanb wrote: post #9

> attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees. HAH! I knew this was going to be in there. Of course it's a gigantic bailout to the universities. STEM grad programs are already full of foreign nationals trying to get a slot in the advanced degree H1-B track. This would absolutely turbocharge that: buy a degree from whatever fourth rate American university for $xxx,xxx and value…

Honestly, the only thing I'd change is to only do this for accredited universities, so people have to go through a real educational institution and not a degree mill like the University of Phoenix.

Other than that, this is brilliant. Not only would it get more smart people into the country, but it would also make it much harder for companies to exploit foreign-born workers. Under the current H-1B system, a company can say "you're going to work 12 hours a day every day for substandard pay, and if you complain or step even an inch out of line, you get to go back to your home country". Green cards would put a stop to this exploitation.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#88

Post by dragonwriter »

amyjess wrote: post #87
jordanb wrote: post #9

> attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees. HAH! I knew this was going to be in there. Of course it's a gigantic bailout to the universities. STEM grad programs are already full of foreign nationals trying to get a slot in the advanced degree H1-B track. This would absolutely turbocharge that: buy a degree from whatever fourth rate American university for $xxx,xxx and value…

Honestly, the only thing I'd change is to only do this for accredited universities, so people have to go through a real educational institution and not a degree mill like the University of Phoenix. Other than that, this is brilliant. Not only would it get more smart people into the country, but it would also make it much harder for companies to exploit foreign-born workers. Under the current H-1B system, a company ca…

> Honestly, the only thing I'd change is to only do this for accredited universities, so people have to go through a real educational institution and not a degree mill like the University of Phoenix.

University of Phoenix is an accredited university.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#89

Post by hasenj »

Eyas wrote: post #28
hasenj wrote: post #20

Trump said something to the same effect in his campaign launching book (Crippled America) where he lamented how the US makes it easy for illegal immigrants but difficult for honest people who studied and graduated in American universities but then have to go back to their home countries because the US doesn't want them to stay.

It is kind of difficult with Trump because he has actually said everything. In a complete system of logic, you will find an argument made in support of every good idea out there (but also, every bad idea out there). In the case of Trump and tech immigration, he had argued for H1-B/green card reform for skilled workers, as you have said, and against it, see http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/.…

The thing with his position on allowing university graduates to stay and work in the US is that he only said it in the book. I've never seen him say it in a public speech, which makes sense given that the majority of his audience seems to have been blue collar workers who would not be so thrilled with the idea of immigrant students taking well paying jobs while they and their children are stuck in a rut.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#90

Post by School-Cotton »

amyjess wrote: post #87
jordanb wrote: post #9

> attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees. HAH! I knew this was going to be in there. Of course it's a gigantic bailout to the universities. STEM grad programs are already full of foreign nationals trying to get a slot in the advanced degree H1-B track. This would absolutely turbocharge that: buy a degree from whatever fourth rate American university for $xxx,xxx and value…

Honestly, the only thing I'd change is to only do this for accredited universities, so people have to go through a real educational institution and not a degree mill like the University of Phoenix. Other than that, this is brilliant. Not only would it get more smart people into the country, but it would also make it much harder for companies to exploit foreign-born workers. Under the current H-1B system, a company ca…

Yeah, accredited by whom?

I hereby accredit the University of Phoenix. What now?

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