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The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

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Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#81

For other people confused about the meaning of BP in this context, it means Benjamin Pierce Fellow. It appears this talk was given in the context of the Benjamin Pierce Centennial Conference: http://www.math.harvard.edu/conferences/bp/

Yes, exactly. And I haven't given the talk yet! I'm giving it 2 hours from right now, and I'm pretty nervous.

I'm replying (I hope) just in time to wish you luck with your talk, which seemed to me, as a mathematician, incredibly interesting.

Also I'd like to wish you luck with your endeavors!

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#82
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a higher risk tolerance than me. I would work on this 80% and do the 20% required stuff as a tenured professor, but what do I know. Maybe I am overly enamored with becoming a tenured professor. If he was already spending his time as a professor working on this, I don't understand the difference. Still, all the best and good luck to him.

The work of a tenured professor is more than 20% time. A normal teaching load is 4-5 classes a year, plus significant committee work, student advising, etc. It takes an enormous amount of time. And it can be awesome, fun, and many of my colleagues love doing it. But it doesn't result in creating a free open source alternative to Mathematica.

I think people underestimate how much work a professor does. Everybody in my department who started a company either did it before starting at the university or they did it while on sabbatical.

Good luck!

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#83
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's explained here. Sage itself is 100% open source, but we have a cloud hosted environment people can pay (a very reasonable amount) to use. https://cloud.sagemath.com/policies/pricing.html

Please charge an unreasonable amount, to secure a good source of funding for your work.

This. $200 for 4 months for 25 users works out to $2 a month per user. You could double or triple it and still be less than the personal plan.

Those large multiuser plans probably come out of grants, departmental budgets, etc. So they're likely not all that sensitive to price. Pretend you were still in academia, and had found online some great cloud-hosted software you wanted to use in a course, would it change your / your department's decision about purchasing that software if covering 70 students for a semester cost $400 vs $800 vs $1000?

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#85
I hate to be that guy, but this needs to be said. The guy on page 15 was right. Sage should have at least put a little more effort into their applications, because if it did, it would be much more popular and thus more developed.

Back in 2011 or so, as a young undergrad, I latched onto sage and used it for an undergrad research project. My BS was from a tiny university (one year, I was the only Physics major in the school)..and I tried to turn all my friends and profs onto sage, being small meant there was no dept. standard, so I tried to impress it on the dept. (3 people really) but they stuck with mathematica because sage didn't even have an easy to use ode solver! For pete's sake... I understand that sage is a niche project for the math community, but if that's the case, that's the only place you'll find funding and devs from.

This is often said here amongst the startup nerds: make sure you have an audience willing to pay. Hey, many of us in the "more applied community" would love to have a FOSS tool that rivals mathematica, we exist! But it needs to do things well, or at least well enough that in linear combination with the fact that it is open source, the overall goodness vector for the project's value has a timelike norm. Then, we'd clamor for it, you get downloads, and one day, the funders will go, "hey, that's good shit right there, I better be a part of it!"

They don't need to do things for others, or for others' interest. But then, no one should be surprised when such efforts don't get funding. I mean, doing something niche implies that less people will be interested which implies that less people will fund it, right? It's almost a direct consequence of choosing to serve a niche.

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#86
post #37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can't be a professor and work full-time on another project, which is what he wants to do.

He has a higher risk tolerance than me. I would work on this 80% and do the 20% required stuff as a tenured professor, but what do I know. Maybe I am overly enamored with becoming a tenured professor. If he was already spending his time as a professor working on this, I don't understand the difference. Still, all the best and good luck to him.

If you do the bare minimum work as a tenured professor you're going to get an awful lot of people extremely mad at you at all levels of the academic hierarchy.

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#87
post #15

This story reminds me of Prof. Tim Davis of Texas A&M, formerly Florida, who I heard had a hard time getting tenure, after making the software and mathematical world a much better place. He (and his group) developed CHOLMOD and UMFPACK and other sparse solvers used everywhere. Basically, when you type A/b in Matlab, it calls his code. It was an incredibly challenging task going from sort-of/kind-of being able to solv…

I'm not sure this is the same case here, although I am biased I readily admit. Everyone and their mom uses matlab. Sage on the other hand is mainly used in the mathematics community which I'm pretty sure is much smaller than the community (community?) or engineers, physicists, biologists, data scientists...

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#88
Prof. Stein's earlier post that had appeared here on HN (http://wstein.org/mathsoftbio/history.pdf) is enormously absorbing reading also. It has much more to tell about the significant challenges that stand in the way of developing high quality open source math software.

Re: The Origins of SageMath; I am leaving academia to build a company [pdf]

#90
post #66
post #58

I'm glad William included slide 10 calling attention to the hostile and insulting attitude Wolfram Research has toward mathematicians and reproducible science in general. (I think some of Sage Math Inc's other closed-course competitors likely have similar attitudes, but Wolfram Research seems to be the worst.) "You should realize at the outset that while knowing about the internals of Mathematica may be of intellectu…

This is why when Big Bang Theory debuted, I thought Sheldon Cooper was specifically supposed to be a parody of Stephen Wolfram. In math, how you came by the results you came by is always relevant. Don't tell mathematicians they don't need to know that. It's their job to know that.

Well, no. They are not at all alike. Stephen Wolfram has a lot more _people skills_ than Sheldon Cooper. Sheldon Cooper is the stereotype of the Asperger scientist who succeeds despite his inability to interact with people, while Stephen Wolfram has been at the helm of a tech company for 30+ years, and that's not something you can really do without having to interact with other people.
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