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Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

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Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#81

Post by nickpsecurity »

DasIch wrote: post #73
mschuster91 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> opening yourself up to claims of being a slut JA lives in Germany. German cops may be total assholes regarding anti-fascist activism, but they take rape very, very seriously.

The problem is that the law regarding rape in Germany is awful. Lack of consent alone is not sufficient for something to be considered rape in Germany. In fact there is currently a fairly noteworthy case ongoing in Germany about a Gina-Lisa Lohfink. She's currently trying to repeal a court decision forcing her to pay money to her rapist. The rapist was considered innocent despite clear video evidence because she didn…

Did this happen in Germany or US? And if in Germany to an American or Americans? Point being, would he be extradited here to be tried according to US laws. If so, the accusers are at an advantage. If not, German law might be legitimate gripe. Cant say more on that given it's not my expertise.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#82

Post by nickpsecurity »

hackuser wrote: post #75
Houshalter wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this essay, about 3% of men will get falsely accused of rape in their lifetime: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/17/lies-damned-lies-and-so... The real number is impossible to determine, but is uncomfortably high.

With due respect, this is a politically charged issue so I'm dubious of trusting random people, such as the author of that article. Are there more established sources around on this issue?

Google "rape conviction overturned DNA evidence." Happens too much.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#83

Post by tptacek »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #68

Actually, with enough female witnesses it's usually easy to get a conviction out of a jury. Matter of fact, it's easy enough that men are regularly released when DNA evidence shows they were wrongly convicted based on one woman's word. This shouldve been sent to the police either with first event or once it became a trend. Instead, we have tweets, stylistic websites, and otherwise a full smear campaign going on prete…

This ginned-up gender conflict is neither germane nor relevant to the discussion; comments like these are a big part of the reason these Appelbaum threads on HN are so awful.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#84

Post by [deleted] »

captainmuon wrote: post #52

In cases like this where it is word against word, I think it is important as an outsider to hedge your bet. Act as if the allegations are true and false at the same time. Assuming they are true: make sure to create a safe space (virtually, in real live, and in discourse) for potential victims. Don't put the accused person on sensitive community functions. Take (this and further) accusations very seriously. If someone…

[deleted]

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#85

Post by espadrine »

Houshalter wrote: post #66
Chris2048 wrote: post #58

> It's rarer than most people think that accusations of sexual abuse are falsely raised How do you determine this?

According to this essay, about 3% of men will get falsely accused of rape in their lifetime: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/17/lies-damned-lies-and-so... The real number is impossible to determine, but is uncomfortably high.

May I argue that it is uncomfortably low? The estimated percentage of women that are the victims of sexual assault is an order of magnitude higher.

(See for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_S...)

> 23 percent of women and 4 percent of men reported experiencing unwanted sexual contact

Even worse, 3% of false positives is a twenty-eighth of the percentage of unreported rapes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States

> Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#86

Post by tptacek »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #82
hackuser wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With due respect, this is a politically charged issue so I'm dubious of trusting random people, such as the author of that article. Are there more established sources around on this issue?

Google "rape conviction overturned DNA evidence." Happens too much.

There were 67,000+ sexual assault convictions in 2012, and 18 overturned convictions. Would you like that as a percentage? That's 0.02%.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#87

Post by rmeyers »

powera wrote: post #54

This Medium post summarizes my take on this statement better than I can. TLDR "I can’t directly say the allegations are false." https://medium.com/@frabyn/decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060...

So another one in the Tor "community" behaves irresponsibly and childish. What a surprise.

Open source projects are completely ruined these days by the ballast that surrounds them and drags them down.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#88

Post by germanier »

DasIch wrote: post #73
mschuster91 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> opening yourself up to claims of being a slut JA lives in Germany. German cops may be total assholes regarding anti-fascist activism, but they take rape very, very seriously.

The problem is that the law regarding rape in Germany is awful. Lack of consent alone is not sufficient for something to be considered rape in Germany. In fact there is currently a fairly noteworthy case ongoing in Germany about a Gina-Lisa Lohfink. She's currently trying to repeal a court decision forcing her to pay money to her rapist. The rapist was considered innocent despite clear video evidence because she didn…

> She's currently trying to repeal a court decision forcing her to pay money to her rapist.

That's not true. She is fighting against a fine (for an allegedly wrong accusation) but that would go to the state and not another involved person.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#89

Post by nickpsecurity »

tptacek wrote: post #79
Chris2048 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While conspiracy theory is a risky proposition, in this case the agencies involved are known for such things. COINTELPRO, prism etc, so it's no entirely implausible to raise such concerns.

First: no, this is not plausible. Second, a question: exactly what is it that people think Jacob Appelbaum did to make him Public Enemy #1 of any government? He's not an especially important Tor contributor. Tor is not only funded by the US Government, but it began as a project at the Naval Research Lab. He's a spokesperson for Wikileaks, and Wikileaks has gotten itself engaged in serious legal issues with the US Gov…

Great analysis. He's seriously among the least likely people to be a sanctioned spy. Maybe potential to be a CI one day ratting on people to avoid time. Anybody is capable of that. Can't imagine anything more.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#90

Post by fredgrott »

What is strange:

First, both the accusers and the accused should have their day in court. It should not be debated any other way.

That being said the TOR project had an obligation to be transparent about this situation and failed to do so..

Some of us do in fact run open source projects and should we abide by TOR's example when we are confronted with the situation of accusations of illegal acts by a project contributor?

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