Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy • Hacker News Board

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#81

Post by toyg » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:13 AM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

> When you let people make decisions on things they don't really care about then they will make poor decisions.

This assumes McBoatface is a poor decision, which is a completely personal (and most likely wrong) assessment.

There are no objective parameters for what a good ship name should be in generic terms. For something with military applications, probably easy spelling and brevity would factor in, but in reality a lot of military ships have long and windy names anyway. Something with a publicity element, like a research ship, could do with something memorable and fun, which Boaty McBoatface undoubtedly is; naming it as some obscure last-century researcher would make it utterly forgettable.

So it looks like there is wisdom in the crowds after all; it's just that often it doesn't match the wisdom of stuffy establishment types.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#82

Post by TillE » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:15 AM UTC

aninhumer wrote: post #73

hartpuff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the boat isn't to be a Budgie the Helicopter style cash machine, is it? It has a serious purpose. Why does it have to appeal to 4 year olds, who have zero understanding of or interest in what it does? Why does it require an infantile name to appeal to kids who are old enough to be interested in what it does? The only reason this is even any kind of issue is because of the way internet works, where all ki…

The parent wasn't simply talking about making it a "cash machine", they're talking about using it as a PR vehicle for science. And you don't have to be a child to appreciate the name, just not quite as allergic to whimsy as you seem to be.

> allergic to whimsy

British public life is nothing but whimsy. Consider that "wheelie bin" is the actual normal name of a thing, not a cutesy nickname.

A little non-whimsy is frankly refreshing.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#83

Post by goda90 » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:16 AM UTC

Everyone is wrong. It should have been named Boaty McFloaty.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#84

Post by toyg » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:16 AM UTC

tfm wrote: post #63

noir_lord wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If spun right the PR benefits of calling the thing Boaty McBoatface are huge. You could do merchandise, books, characters, You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. It's not like this is unusual we had a Childrens TV series here that was massively popular about talking trains and talking helicopters. I think they squandered a massive opportunity because they don't unders…

It is a difficult line to toe. Obviously if their primary objective is to raise awareness of the (continuing) existence of the boat, BMcBF is a winner, and there are numerous cash-in opportunities such as those you suggest. If done right it might not even look cynical! If on the other hand giving it a silly name "dilutes their brand" (to use an HN favourite) then they're going to do the stuffy thing. Not entirely sur…

> Really seems that SCIENCE does a lot better in the public eye at the moment when it goes populist rather than cloistered

Except vaccines. And chemtrails. And moon landings. And and and...

I'm a populist by nature but let's not get carried away here.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#85

Post by toyg » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:21 AM UTC

dcw303 wrote: post #18

Comparing Boaty McBoatface to electing a democratic official for representation is a little disingenuous. One is a popularity contest of suggestions to a concrete answer of a question, the other is marking a preference for someone who you hope will perform executive actions in line with what you want. Surely it's closer to compare it to a referendum: in which, the public majority agreed on an answer that the establis…

> the other is marking a preference for someone who you hope will perform executive actions

You so wish. It's a popularity contest like any other. Proof: Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Ventura, Berlusconi, Trump, Franken, the Ghandi dynasty, even the last Troudeau. Name recognition alone pretty much trumps (eh) everything else, once you couple it with pre-existing popularity you've basically won, no matter what your message is. You can try to outweigh that with massive doses of continuous higher education, sure, but the natural rest state is that any electoral process is mostly a popularity contest.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#86

Post by krylon » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:25 AM UTC

> “Can you imagine one of the world’s biggest research labs travelling to the Antarctic with your suggested name proudly emblazoned on the side?”

I know it is silly and childish, but that would be so awesome. That joke would never get old.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#87

Post by hartpuff » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:27 AM UTC

aninhumer wrote: post #80

hartpuff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could do merchandise, books, characters He was talking about free merchandise, books, characters then?

They also said: > You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. An example of how it could be used to deliver important messages. And merchandise can be part of the message anyway. (I should however note that I just edited my comment to include the word "simply".)

AFAIK there's nothing to stop someone creating a character called Boaty McBoatface that teaches 4 year olds why the ice caps are melting, without having its internet joke name attached to a real life $300 million scientific research vessel.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#88

Post by smoyer » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:31 AM UTC

“The new royal research ship will be sailing into the world’s iciest waters to address global challenges that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people, including global warming, the melting of polar ice, and rising sea levels,”

"Imagine Boaty McBoatface sailing into the world's iciest waters with the wide-eyed fascination of a child. Observing global challenges that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people, Boaty McBoatface absorbs new facts and ideas without the jaundiced and prejudiced views of older research vessels while providing fresh perspectives and iron-clad observations of data regarding global warming, the melting of polar ice and rising sea levels."

I think it works!

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#89

Post by narag » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:37 AM UTC

gpvos wrote: post #48

narag wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe it would have been outrageous that this man had his name in a british ship, you'll be surprised by the shitstorm that would happen if his name would be given to a spanish ship.

According to Wikipedia, several Spanish ships have been named after him.

Has been. Try it now and see what happens.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#90

Post by icebraining » Fri, Apr 22, 2016, 11:38 AM UTC

hartpuff wrote: post #69

noir_lord wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If spun right the PR benefits of calling the thing Boaty McBoatface are huge. You could do merchandise, books, characters, You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. It's not like this is unusual we had a Childrens TV series here that was massively popular about talking trains and talking helicopters. I think they squandered a massive opportunity because they don't unders…

The point of the boat isn't to be a Budgie the Helicopter style cash machine, is it? It has a serious purpose. Why does it have to appeal to 4 year olds, who have zero understanding of or interest in what it does? Why does it require an infantile name to appeal to kids who are old enough to be interested in what it does? The only reason this is even any kind of issue is because of the way internet works, where all ki…

Yeah, serious new Royal Navy boats need serious names, like its predecessors HMS Speedy, HMS Child's Play, HMS Happy Entrance, HMS Arrogant (later renamed HMS Insolent)...