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Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

nytimes.com

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Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#81

Post by megalodon »

ra1n85 wrote: post #69
appleflaxen wrote: post #3

There is a whole lot of climate change evidence coming out that is terrifying. At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? Falling renewable prices are not enough, and use-based taxes are the single best way to let individuals make their own decisions about what/how much to use. Carbon credits are a good market-based solution t…

>At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? You're jumping to conclusions on the actual solution to the problem. I suggest unpacking this problem a bit more. Given the time scales, and potential delay between addition of CO2 into the atmosphere and consequence, I imagine that we should also be thinking "How do we adjust to our…

If it's guaranteed to slow consumtion, why not? "Taxes, never" is short sighted.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#82

Post by [deleted] »

ra1n85 wrote: post #69
appleflaxen wrote: post #3

There is a whole lot of climate change evidence coming out that is terrifying. At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? Falling renewable prices are not enough, and use-based taxes are the single best way to let individuals make their own decisions about what/how much to use. Carbon credits are a good market-based solution t…

>At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? You're jumping to conclusions on the actual solution to the problem. I suggest unpacking this problem a bit more. Given the time scales, and potential delay between addition of CO2 into the atmosphere and consequence, I imagine that we should also be thinking "How do we adjust to our…

[deleted]

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#83

Post by blondie9x »

An interesting point that people aren't talking about is food waste.

It's estimated that wasted food contributes 13-17% to aggregate global warming.

Who will write an app to help people waste less food and monetize by reduce costs and savings for users and businesses?

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.5b05088

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#84

Post by ocschwar »

xfactor973 wrote: post #32

I planted about 50 fruit trees and bushes when I moved into my new place. I also converted the electric to 100% renewable. Other than dumping my natural gas heater I'm not sure what's left that I can do to help reduce climate change.

Show up at City Hall and advocate for improved walkability in your area

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#85

Post by blondie9x »

gedy wrote: post #20
blondie9x wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Washington is too tainted by vested interests that seek to procrastinate shift. Time has literally run out. From here we are already in catch up mode. It seems like a revolution is necessary to stop them from acting against humanity's long term existence for their short term financial gain.

Washington could be taken over by the Green party, ban fossil fuels, etc - and we'd still be in trouble due to China, et al with their increasing CO2 output. Reminds me a bit of banning plastic bags in California to help the ocean. That's lovely, but given Asia dumps something like 150 times the amount plastics into the ocean, so is basically meaningless.

gedy regardless we must lead by example. We have seen that guilt and public inertia can drive others to act. Being exemplary does have an impact.

China signed a climate deal with the US to limit emissions for the first time in 2014. In 2015 they and earlier this year they signed a global deal on climate also.

Leading and being by example can lead to change.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#86

Post by guscost »

ageofwant wrote: post #61
guscost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trends that ... threaten the comfort and safety of billions of people Again I don't agree that the threat indicated by these trends is as grave as you claim. I agree there is strong evidence of a grave threat to this coral ecosystem, and Australian coastal tourism.

And what are the consequences of you being wrong ?

The answer you're leading toward is "something akin to apocalypse", and I get it, it's scary.

On the other hand have you really taken enough time to consider the consequences if your faction is wrong? Have you acknowledged that there could be bad consequences in that case too?

Typically I hear "we would be taking better care of the environment anyway so win-win" but nobody ever adds "by granting loads of new power to governments and big institutions, which may or may not be corrupted just as big and powerful institutions have been corrupted throughout history" and that is a significant detail!

Out of curiosity, I'm interested to know which of the following descriptions you consider more accurate:

a) The climate/environment situation is exactly as bad as the mainstream warnings indicate. The only hope at this point is if we can start a large long-term centrally planned project to administer the solution as decided by the most prominent or respected thinkers.

a) The climate/environment situation is not as dire as mainstream warnings indicate. At least some of the activism is motivated by fear, when people notice this or that smaller problem, get very scared by warnings of much bigger problems to come, and make the not-completely-rational choice to give up freedom for the promise of safety.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#87

Post by miracle_code »

ocschwar wrote: post #70
kinkywizard wrote: post #67

How alarmed are they exactly? Oh my God Oh my God We are all going to die alarmed I have bad feeling about this alarmed Or Hm how odd alarmed

"Hope you don't mind giving up seafood" alarmed.

"Unless you like jellyfish" calmed.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#88

Post by [deleted] »

ocschwar wrote: post #68
guscost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trends that ... threaten the comfort and safety of billions of people Again I don't agree that the threat indicated by these trends is as grave as you claim. I agree there is strong evidence of a grave threat to this coral ecosystem, and Australian coastal tourism.

We're talking about the need to relocate entire cities at this point. Those bleached corals don't just close shipping lanes near Queensland. They protect islands comprising entire nation states that now have to relocate. In the Pacific atolls, entire islands have had to give up conventional agriculture because of sea water intrusion. It takes willful blindness to "not agree" at this point.

[deleted]

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#89

Post by zanny »

eggy wrote: post #37
agumonkey wrote: post #4

At this point I welcome catastrophe. Nobody listens anyway so a clear message from nature is the only way.

I try to understand people, and your despair is loud and clear here. Change is inevitable for sure, man or nature (man is nature, BTW). The sun will devour the inner planets in 4 billion years, but it is burning brighter each year, and in 1 billion years, it will boil off the oceans, coral and all. To the stars if we wish to preserve humankind. There is a lot of complaining that nothing is being done. There should be…

If we have the power to traverse interstellar space en masse, we are probably bordering on the necessary Type 2 civilization to move the Earth away from the Sun over the billions of years it will take to first boil the oceans and then eat the planet.

Its asymptotic to your point, but practically - assuming we don't destroy ourselves this century - we will spend a lot of resources when we are a trans-universal space-faring race to preserve the Earth in the same way we spend time preserving historical art and architecture.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#90

Post by ocschwar »

ageofwant wrote: post #61
guscost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trends that ... threaten the comfort and safety of billions of people Again I don't agree that the threat indicated by these trends is as grave as you claim. I agree there is strong evidence of a grave threat to this coral ecosystem, and Australian coastal tourism.

And what are the consequences of you being wrong ?

"At least some of the activism is motivated by fear, when people notice this or that smaller problem, get very scared by warnings of much bigger problems to come, and make the not-completely-rational choice to give up freedom for the promise of safety. " And just what "freedoms" are we talking about here? Please elaborate so we can mock your argument a little more thoroughly. -----
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