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Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

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Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#81

Post by eropple »

rm999 wrote: post #37
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #5

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

He did start the book to sort of mock the company; from his NPR interview: >when I first sold the book and start to write it, it was meant to be sort of a modern-day "Office Space ... I wanted to write just a funny story about being in a kooky company. It was just a comedy. On one hand I think it's sort of disingenuous - the company culture was never a good fit for him and he shouldn't harm others because of his mist…

> the company culture was never a good fit for him and he shouldn't harm others because of his mistake

How about the company shouldn't try to harm its workers? Because they do. Most startups do (it's practically part of the business plan, underpay your workers and dilute their equity 'til, if you are a mega-success, selling out might make up the delta between your underpaying salary and the one they could have gotten at a normal company), most tech companies do (though in other ways, hello collusion and managerial gaslighting). And shining a light on that is, if not noble, at least necessary.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#82

Post by supercanuck »

justin_vanw wrote: post #66

So does the author think that everyone is great at their job? What do you do when you have an employee that can't do the work and you are confident that they won't improve? Pointing out the age difference in the manager and the employee, and their sexes, is just baiting. Unless he wants to make the case that there was sexism or agism from the manager, or that the company engaged in sexism or agism, it is just a red h…

I came away with the impression that HubSpot's management was purposely divorced from reality, and so it is hard to take them at face value that she was unable to perform her job. The issue appears that she was too costly to the company due to biological reasons(1. being old and 2. being a woman). The other issue from the article was that there didn't seem to be an objective way of measuring performance so "graduations" become rather arbitrary, and when they are arbitrary with the appearance of objective, there isn't any reason not to cut out the more "costly Employees"

This is the argument you seem to be missing in the article and maybe just too young to understand.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#83

Post by michaelt »

deanCommie wrote: post #60
JayHost wrote: post #17

Amazon is new Walmart. They don't care that you don't like their work environment.They have money; you need money and have little options. I think instead of being interested in recycling talent; Amazon is interested in those who will take the most abuse.

Let's back off with the Amazon hate. Right below it on the same list is Google with an average tenure at 1.1 years. Nobody tries to use that as an argument that Google burns through workers who quit in dissatisfaction.

I think part of the reason is working class employees traditionally have comparatively poor employment conditions[1] and Amazon has many more working class employees than Google does, because Amazon operates warehouses and call centres.

Nobody's getting heatstroke in Google's fulfilment centres, because they don't exist.

[1] http://www.collegehumor.com/post/7035742/office-job-vs-retai...

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#84

Post by santaclaus »

fleitz wrote: post #77
Scoundreller wrote: post #70

> I joined the company in 2013 after spending 25 years in journalism and getting laid off from a top position at Newsweek. I thought working at a start-up would be great. The perks! The cool offices! > It turned out I’d joined a digital sweatshop, where people were packed into huge rooms, side by side, at long tables. It sounds like this journalist failed to investigate their new job before Day 1...

Yeah it's like those people who have been working with J2EE for 25 years at Big Company X that is now bankrupt, and constantly complain about the lack of GANNT charts, or whatever the hammer and chisel tools they use to make J2EE apps.

At least a hammer and chisel would have better performance than Eclipse...

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#85

Post by fleitz »

josh_carterPDX wrote: post #75
fleitz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't see many places that that only have incompetent managers and no incompetent employees. :) Or alternatively, what does it say about people who have seen this culture for 4 years and are still there?

Yeah there's a balance. Everyone thinks a company has it all figured out until they work there and find out it's just like every other company struggling to figure stuff out.

Definitely, once you've been around the block a few times you realize that it's the same everywhere.

Eventually, you just find the biggest pay cheque you can, and do the routine of putting on your coconut headphones, sit down at your tiki desk and chair and sip your mochas in peace as you wait for the morning calisthenics meeting to begin, wondering what exactly the difference between waterfall, agile, tdd, etc actually is because all you've ever seen anywhere is tiki driven development.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#86

Post by luckydata »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #5

Does anyone have more context on Dan Lyons? After reading this article, and the one from Fortune[0], and his post on LinkedIn[1], it feels like he's out there scraping together blatant PR for his new book. And it makes me honestly wonder whether he went to work for HubSpot looking for a story to write in the first place... and being a writer for the "Silicon Valley" TV series doesn't really help his credibility in th…

I worked in tech for a while and nothing he says sounds implausible or strange. Most jobs in tech are bad, all the perks are there just to confuse young suckers about who's taking advantage of who, and the libertarian streak of tech worker is carefully cultivated to make us weaker as a category.

The only glimmer of hope is that personally I'm noticing my peers and friends working all over the Bay Area are starting to notice. Maybe in a few years we'll do something about it.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#87

Post by timr »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #36
guelo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're searching for a good adhominem attack, coming up empty, and asking for the startup community's help in taking him down.

No I'm not. I'm looking for more information, because I don't want to buy into outlandish-sounding PR articles on their basis alone. While you were writing this comment, I was editing my comment with insights from the interview that @CPLX linked to ;) and I agree with him.

I read it that way, too. Why does it matter that the guy is writing a book? Why does it matter that the article is marketing for the book? Is it true? Sounds like it is.

I read your comment after the edits were applied, and I still thought it was one of those sneaky sorts of "homeopathic ad hominem" attacks where you don't make the attack directly, but instead allude to the "questions" that invoke the attack when considered by the reader.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#88

Post by bucma »

xzi wrote: post #46
ThomPete wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can but it's extremely, extremely rare for the very simple fact that your primary skills as a manager is people skills and the ability to relate to other peoples situation. Something you normally won't be as developed at that point. At 28 you have more experience than a 18 year old, but not much and def not enough to be able to relate to a 35 year old person in most cases. So not sure I find it ironic. Rather I c…

I agree with everything you say. However, in my personal experience, the best manager I've had was 25 when I was 30. This manager realized he didn't really know much. So he stayed out of my way and let me make the technical decisions while he ran interference with the directors and VPs. Never had a more smooth working environment before or since.

He really understood his role well. Unfortunately, this is pretty rare now.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#89

Post by themodelplumber »

fleitz wrote: post #77
Scoundreller wrote: post #70

> I joined the company in 2013 after spending 25 years in journalism and getting laid off from a top position at Newsweek. I thought working at a start-up would be great. The perks! The cool offices! > It turned out I’d joined a digital sweatshop, where people were packed into huge rooms, side by side, at long tables. It sounds like this journalist failed to investigate their new job before Day 1...

Yeah it's like those people who have been working with J2EE for 25 years at Big Company X that is now bankrupt, and constantly complain about the lack of GANNT charts, or whatever the hammer and chisel tools they use to make J2EE apps.

Gantt charts helped me and a group of subcontractors compete against some huge corporate teams. It's legit to complain about a lack of gantt charts.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#90

Post by luckydata »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #36
guelo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're searching for a good adhominem attack, coming up empty, and asking for the startup community's help in taking him down.

No I'm not. I'm looking for more information, because I don't want to buy into outlandish-sounding PR articles on their basis alone. While you were writing this comment, I was editing my comment with insights from the interview that @CPLX linked to ;) and I agree with him.

What's outlandish about what he writes? Take ONE sentence that sounds incredible and paste it as reply.
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