Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism • Hacker News Board

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#81

Post by pfooti » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

keithpeter wrote: post #29

marcus_holmes wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the objection to zero-rated services. Angolans get to use the internet, but they only get to use the zero-rated bits of it. And they have to use them in ways that westerners approve of. It comes down to money, really. Do we put a "you must be this rich to use the internet" sign up on the planet's communications, or do we allow people to bring their culture and ideas to the party despite their poverty? This wh…

I personally would welcome a free (as in no money) unrestricted but low bandwidth Internet connection for everyone. Paid would be faster. I'm in the UK. Free mobile broadband at something like 256Kbits with cheap USB dongles would allow access for all children & low income adults who could find a suitable client device (recycled laptop/cheap smartish phone whatever). Sort of basic income argument applied to Internet…

Kinda depends. Do the people in the UK who use this service have to abide by laws of other countries, laws that don't exist in the UK? That's the problem here, right?

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#82

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

keithpeter wrote: post #29

marcus_holmes wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the objection to zero-rated services. Angolans get to use the internet, but they only get to use the zero-rated bits of it. And they have to use them in ways that westerners approve of. It comes down to money, really. Do we put a "you must be this rich to use the internet" sign up on the planet's communications, or do we allow people to bring their culture and ideas to the party despite their poverty? This wh…

I personally would welcome a free (as in no money) unrestricted but low bandwidth Internet connection for everyone. Paid would be faster. I'm in the UK. Free mobile broadband at something like 256Kbits with cheap USB dongles would allow access for all children & low income adults who could find a suitable client device (recycled laptop/cheap smartish phone whatever). Sort of basic income argument applied to Internet…

[deleted]

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#83

Post by krylon » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

f_allwein wrote: post #8

Nice and creative use of a restrictive system. While most people will just use it for piracy, I'm sure a good few will end up contributing to Wikipedia as well. How many of today's hackers got interested in computers through pirated content first?

> Nice and creative use of a restrictive system.

That was my first thought, too. Ignoring the legal issues, that is pretty clever.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#84

Post by coryfklein » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:00 PM UTC

dsr_ wrote: post #53

masterofcookies wrote: post #18

The author puts encyclopedic knowledge and movies in the same category ("information") and seems to be arguing that they both should be freely available. I'm not saying that current copyright system isn't completely screwed up and in need of reform, but I don't think disregarding content creators is an optimal solution.

That's right. People who contribute to human knowledge by editing Wikipedia are vastly undercompensated compared to the movie industry.

There is a difference between the value of information and the price of that information.

Using value to determine undercompensation ignores that markets work on price, and often things of low intrinsic value are priced higher than others with high intrinsic value.

An encyclopedia with broad coverage clearly has greater intrinsic value than a Star Wars Blu-ray, yet the market has priced Star Wars Blu-rays as more expensive.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#85

Post by zanny » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

masterofcookies wrote: post #18

The author puts encyclopedic knowledge and movies in the same category ("information") and seems to be arguing that they both should be freely available. I'm not saying that current copyright system isn't completely screwed up and in need of reform, but I don't think disregarding content creators is an optimal solution.

Because the only possible way for a creator of information to survive off said creation is to use extremely invasive state institutions to compel the population into giving them a perpetual monopoly on distribution of said information.

There are plenty of ways to seek compensation for the creation of information, with only a minute subset of them requiring copyright monopoly to function.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#86

Post by dwaltrip » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:09 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #84

dsr_ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. People who contribute to human knowledge by editing Wikipedia are vastly undercompensated compared to the movie industry.

There is a difference between the value of information and the price of that information. Using value to determine undercompensation ignores that markets work on price, and often things of low intrinsic value are priced higher than others with high intrinsic value. An encyclopedia with broad coverage clearly has greater intrinsic value than a Star Wars Blu-ray, yet the market has priced Star Wars Blu-rays as more exp…

There is no such thing as intrinsic value. All value is subjective. Any item has no value unless an observer is present to value it. An, unsurprisingly, different observers will value the object differently, often wildly so.

Price is an extremely rough heuristic on the median or average valuation of an object. However, the majority can often be short-sighted at times, leading those who are looking more longer term to make statements like "the price doesn't reflect the intrinsic value of this thing". But even then, the big picture thinkers are of course assuming that the long view is the "correct view", when really, there is no single "correct view". How would one even go about attempting to define such a thing? It's all subjective.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#87

Post by sampo » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:10 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #61

labster wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The colonialism is attempting to enforce Western mores and laws about copyright on the Angolan population. As well as Wikipedia's own culture which is pretty Western itself. While Wikipedia may be attempting to colonize Angola with some of its community conduct values, the population there has another view of Wikipedia's purpose which might be equally valid.

Would you express the same cultural relativistic sentiments about the validity of purpose if a small group decided to repurpose your Wiki? It's very damaging to trade with the developing world if we start accusing companies of "attempting to colonize" because they have the temerity to expect people granted subsidised access to their website to actually play by the same rules as everyone else. I mean, if we start assu…

> play by the same rules as everyone else

Actually, your "everyone else" who play by the Western rules, is probably less than half of the world population.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#88

Post by specialist » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

MikeNomad wrote: post #74

zahmahkibo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are a content creator, you create ONE copy. This does not entitle you to ANY other copies. Copying is not theft, but copyright sure is.

A Content Creator is first creating _the master_. Copies are what happens after. Unless you are talking about serial editions, etc.

Huh. Interesting distinction, thanks.

Mine has been that contributors (authors, editors, performers, researchers, etc) increase information content, complexity. Kind of a information theoretic metaphor, not that I truly grok that discipline.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#89

Post by scrollaway » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:14 PM UTC

cdubzzz wrote: post #9

f_allwein wrote: post #8

Nice and creative use of a restrictive system. While most people will just use it for piracy, I'm sure a good few will end up contributing to Wikipedia as well. How many of today's hackers got interested in computers through pirated content first?

Amen. The reason that I am able to use Photoshop effectively (enough) today is split up rar files in AOL emails and Hotline (:

That's been Adobe's business model for a long time, and a very clever one at that. Let Photoshop be pirated all over schools and unis, reap the enterprise benefits when the graphics designers who only learned Photoshop are getting hired.

Re: Angola’s Wikipedia Pirates Are Exposing the Problems with Digital Colonialism

#90

Post by SCAQTony » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 3:15 PM UTC

Perhaps Beyonce and Marvel have done more for the USA in regards to culture, values and reputation than tanks, drones and torture has?

IMHO, A good President would tell our trade reps to keep one eye closed on this matter and perhaps consider compensating American companies that "illegally" get their arts and entertainment smuggled into difficult countries such as Iran, North Korea, and friendly nations in Africa like Angola!