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paulgraham.com

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Re: Stuff

#81

Post by Raphael »

gwern wrote: post #70
marshallp wrote: post #62

Kids don't builder a coarser model of the evironment, adults do. Once again pg doesn't do his resaarch before espousing his amateur psychology.

I came here to say just this. He's right for all the wrong reasons. In most mental areas, kids trounce adults; relevantly, their senses are much sharper. (Just the other day I saw an astronomer's anecdote: he was showing adults and kids some phenomena through his observatory's telescope, and the kids politely told him that it was obviously broken since the object was upside-down - the adults never noticed.) It's not…

How can something be upside down in space?

Re: Stuff

#82

Post by dejan »

philwelch wrote: post #80
fnid2 wrote: post #76

I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars. Wow, Paul, you really don't understand what it is like to be poor. The poor people don't have a lot of cars in their yard because they can afford lots of cars. They have lots of cars because they never throw them away. Rich p…

Or maybe people with marginal incomes spend themselves into sustained poverty through wasteful consumption. If they saved money instead of buying minimally useful possessions and saving the possessions, maybe they wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford stuff they need. You and I have probably known different sets of poor people, but I've seen cases of this. That doesn't justify throwing things away once yo…

you've laid it out nicely, this is the mindset of the poor and average people. I always remember the photo of Jobs's living room in the 80s. When there isn't too much crap around, you can actually focus on what matters.

Re: Stuff

#83

Post by masterj »

gasull wrote: post #37

You can join the 100 things challenge: http://www.guynameddave.com/100-thing-challenge.html One problem I've found with it is that people buy me worthless gifts (gifts I don't derive value from because I don't use them). I've created an online list of things I want at kaboodle.com, or more exactly, a list of things I wouldn't mind possessing, but my family refuses buying anything on the list because that's "spoiling…

My solution was telling my family that if they wanted to get me a gift, it should be consumable. A nice bottle of wine, cheeses, beer, spices, etc. all make great gifts that you can enjoy, but don't have to deal with and store for years. They also don't feel bad about not getting you anything.

Re: Stuff

#84

Post by oconnore »

I agree to being minimalist, with the notable exception of kitchen supplies. It's near impossible to cook interesting food without cabinets full of spices, various sized pots and pans, utensils of all shapes, and in some cases, specialty items like blenders, strainers, etc. Add to that a pantry full of food staples, and a full refrigerator, and suddenly moving anywhere is a painful process.

Life is too short to live on ramen.

Re: Stuff

#85

Post by philwelch »

dejan wrote: post #82
philwelch wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe people with marginal incomes spend themselves into sustained poverty through wasteful consumption. If they saved money instead of buying minimally useful possessions and saving the possessions, maybe they wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford stuff they need. You and I have probably known different sets of poor people, but I've seen cases of this. That doesn't justify throwing things away once yo…

you've laid it out nicely, this is the mindset of the poor and average people. I always remember the photo of Jobs's living room in the 80s. When there isn't too much crap around, you can actually focus on what matters.

I wouldn't go that far. It's the mindset of most people, almost everyone who hasn't specifically trained themselves to be minimalist. People with enough income can afford to hoard as long as you don't give them too much easy credit, though, so it doesn't hurt them in the same way it hurts people with less income.

Re: Stuff

#86

Post by billswift »

I have lots and lots of stuff. Some I use regularly or at least often enough. Some I used to use and keep just in case, its not like its costing me. And some I got just in case, mostly science, math, and engineering books I found cheap and think I might get to some day (they are also a useful investment, I've been mostly living off of reselling some of them the last year that I've been out of work).

But I am not ruled by my stuff, I have in the past, and could again, just abandon most of it when I move again. What I know and can do is what is most important to me; and that is mostly what my belongings are actually about - books, tools, supplies for learning and doing.

"The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever."

-- Louis L'Amour, The Walking Drum

Re: Stuff

#87

Post by tb »

Raphael wrote: post #81
gwern wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to say just this. He's right for all the wrong reasons. In most mental areas, kids trounce adults; relevantly, their senses are much sharper. (Just the other day I saw an astronomer's anecdote: he was showing adults and kids some phenomena through his observatory's telescope, and the kids politely told him that it was obviously broken since the object was upside-down - the adults never noticed.) It's not…

How can something be upside down in space?

If it's close to the horizon then there's a definite "up" - towards the zenith. Many telescopes invert the incoming image, hence why the kids would've thought it was upside-down.

(I am assuming the object in question was visible with the naked eye, probably the moon, although it's also possible that the children noticed that when the telescope moved, the image appeared to move in the "wrong" direction relative to their expectations.)

Re: Stuff

#88

Post by rbreve »

fnid2 wrote: post #76

I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars. Wow, Paul, you really don't understand what it is like to be poor. The poor people don't have a lot of cars in their yard because they can afford lots of cars. They have lots of cars because they never throw them away. Rich p…

I am from Honduras one of the poorest countries in Latin America, and if you go to poor neighborhoods you will see very cheap and small houses, but in their garage you will see very good cars, they rather have a nice car than live in a nice house or decent neighborhood. It's strange.

Re: Stuff

#89

Post by rubinelli »

Raphael wrote: post #81
gwern wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to say just this. He's right for all the wrong reasons. In most mental areas, kids trounce adults; relevantly, their senses are much sharper. (Just the other day I saw an astronomer's anecdote: he was showing adults and kids some phenomena through his observatory's telescope, and the kids politely told him that it was obviously broken since the object was upside-down - the adults never noticed.) It's not…

How can something be upside down in space?

I think it's about how telescopes show images upside down, except for those that flip them back with mirrors.

Re: Stuff

#90

Post by dejan »

philwelch wrote: post #85
dejan wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you've laid it out nicely, this is the mindset of the poor and average people. I always remember the photo of Jobs's living room in the 80s. When there isn't too much crap around, you can actually focus on what matters.

I wouldn't go that far. It's the mindset of most people, almost everyone who hasn't specifically trained themselves to be minimalist. People with enough income can afford to hoard as long as you don't give them too much easy credit, though, so it doesn't hurt them in the same way it hurts people with less income.

You are right with your correction. I just read again what I wrote - it's quite harsh I see. Should have been in bed long time ago :D

My intention was: The mindset of poor and average people is commonly very affected by this, with least barriers, falling into a rat race, as a cause and a consequence.

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