Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits • Hacker News Board

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#81

Post by lisivka » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:33 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #61

pcl wrote: post #5

The cartels, of course, are adapting to the new reality. Seizure data appears to indicate that with marijuana profits tumbling, they're switching over to heroin and meth. This is a really interesting development. There's always been this "gateway drug" argument around pot: once people start with marijuana, they'll move onto the harder stuff. I can imagine that there might be a correlation, but I expect that the causa…

There's always been this "gateway drug" argument around pot I have studied ...bunches of stuff. And I believe a huge factor is the fact that marijuana is illegal , so you cross an important legal threshold when you try it and that can become a slippery slope. I think details like that probably matter more than the substance per se. Addiction is hard to solve in part due to shame and all kinds of social reinforcement.…

Crossing streets on red light is illegal too. Enjoy it.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#82

Post by PixelB » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:33 PM UTC

random_upvoter wrote: post #76

vectorjohn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been a really bad argument, the myriad ways it's been made. I wouldn't want my doctor drunk while he operates on me either. But failing a marijuana drug test says absolutely nothing about weather you are under the influence of marijuana. If you could detect alcohol in the blood a week after taking a drink, it would be clearly stupid to have random alcohol tests that cause you to lose your job if a tra…

> But failing a marijuana drug test says absolutely nothing about weather you are under the influence of marijuana. I'm not so sure of that. Failing a marijuana drug test means that there's a measurable amount of THC in your body.

You may not be so sure of that, but I am.

A "marijuana drug test" usually means testing for THC metabolites, not active THC in your blood stream. These can show up on test results a month after you ingested anything.

Imagine if tomorrow you were called in and they did a test to see if you had a single beer/glass of wine in the last month. Would you pass that test? If you would, great.. I'm willing to put down money that most people wouldn't.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#83

Post by School-Cotton » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:42 PM UTC

gregpilling wrote: post #70

caseysoftware wrote: post #32

> The latest data from the U.S. Border Patrol shows that last year, marijuana seizures along the southwest border tumbled to their lowest level in at least a decade. That does not mean there are less drugs being imported, just that less are being seized. I worked with the Border Patrol years ago and it was astounding how they tracked success: - When arrests increased, they celebrated that enforcement was working. - W…

Speaking of the US Border, it is way more porous than many people think. Here is a photo of the 2 strands of barbed wire that make up the border fence near Locheil Arizona. If you ride your dirt bike along the border there (I did), then you will find a few dirt roads that cross the border that look heavily used. I spent 8 hours down there and was not approached by any Border Patrol (Saw some from 100 feet away, but n…

I think most people (at least from the Southwest) know about this; otherwise Donald Trump's desire to "build a wall" would be incoherent.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#84

Post by random_upvoter » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:45 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #59

jamesfe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, but taken through some lenses, maybe that's still OK? I've never smoked, but I wonder if I'd like my doctor to be high when he operates on me, or for an armorer to reassemble my rifle while high. Does marijuana influence attention to detail? Is there a way to ensure that people don't get high while at work, that they stay sober on the job? Anecdotally, from watching high people while I was in univer…

This is handled through most jobs requiring that people show up sober to the workplace. The same laws/rules would apply to marijuana. You can't operate heavy machinery while drunk or high, though caffeine and tobacco generally aren't regarded in the same way. It's foolish to think people will just throw caution to the wind and get high before doing their job.

If your employee is a habitual pot smoker there is still the risk that one day he turns up high for work. Why would you take that risk if you can hire somebody who does not smoke at all?

Other than that, consumption of cannabis is correlated with a bunch of stuff that an employer may want to avoid (for instance increased impulsivity [1])

Given the fact that employers routinely choose to not hire somebody because of even the slightest misgivings, not wanting to employ a pot smoker can hardly be called irrational.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25595054

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#85

Post by gregpilling » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:48 PM UTC

Another reason not mentioned in the article is quality. Domestically produced hydroponically grown marijuana is so much better than the Mexican weed. I live 60 miles from Mexico in Tucson Arizona, we see a lot of it around here. The quality difference is huge - compare your favorite craft brew with Bud Light that has been left in the sun too long.

I had a friend give me an ounce of Mexican weed last year. That is a fair bit of weed. I tried a sample one night, and then gave it back. It wasn't worth keeping around, even for free. I knew I would just never use it, it was typical Mexican ditch weed and my tastes had gone to better things.

So which beer did you want? Sam Adams, or this Miller with a cigarette in it? The Mexican weed is just disgusting now. Only people on a tight budget will use it, not people with a choice; maybe 10% of the users I know. Everyone else gets the good stuff. Light, fluffy with 20 strains to choose from, tested and graded, and you can pick out the individual bud that speaks to you; or compressed brick that smells a little like coffee or grease and has an unknown THC level, unknown origin, unknown anything.

The only positive attribute to the Mexican weed is price.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#86

Post by matt_wulfeck » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:57 PM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #32

> The latest data from the U.S. Border Patrol shows that last year, marijuana seizures along the southwest border tumbled to their lowest level in at least a decade. That does not mean there are less drugs being imported, just that less are being seized. I worked with the Border Patrol years ago and it was astounding how they tracked success: - When arrests increased, they celebrated that enforcement was working. - W…

That's true and a good point, but the article also quotes a Mexican grower who says the bulk price has come down about 50%. That's money right out of the cartels pockets.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#87

Post by conceit » Sun, Mar 06, 2016, 11:57 PM UTC

jqm wrote: post #50

pille wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I can try to paraphrase: Criminalization has been so ineffective that you were simply expected to use meth at this one job you had, because everyone else was doing it. And you think this might argue in favor of continued criminalization?

No, not at all. I agree... this kind of problem exists even with criminalization and I agree on the pretty obvious (to me anyway) need to do away with criminalization. But problems of this kind could become worse if taking meth were legal. That's my only point.

The personal barrier to entry would become worse with legalization, that the peer pressure would thrive on. But that logic would be true for other accounts, too. I've been thinking before that legalization, from the perspective of prior moralized prohibition, would seem like allowance or even encouragement, instead of deregulation because of a lack of or even of the futility of enforcement.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#88

Post by seizethecheese » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 12:01 AM UTC

gregpilling wrote: post #85

Another reason not mentioned in the article is quality. Domestically produced hydroponically grown marijuana is so much better than the Mexican weed. I live 60 miles from Mexico in Tucson Arizona, we see a lot of it around here. The quality difference is huge - compare your favorite craft brew with Bud Light that has been left in the sun too long. I had a friend give me an ounce of Mexican weed last year. That is a f…

Thank you. I hardly ever see comments about the benefits of legalization to casual weed smokers. Maybe we haven't shed the stigma yet, but this isn't just bad for drug lords and for-profit prisons, this is good for millions of consumers!

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#89

Post by sanderjd » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 12:01 AM UTC

oxide wrote: post #67

jamesfe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, but taken through some lenses, maybe that's still OK? I've never smoked, but I wonder if I'd like my doctor to be high when he operates on me, or for an armorer to reassemble my rifle while high. Does marijuana influence attention to detail? Is there a way to ensure that people don't get high while at work, that they stay sober on the job? Anecdotally, from watching high people while I was in univer…

only problem is that drug tests don't prove current intoxication unless it's specifically designed to do so. the drug tests you are referring to, pre-employment and workers comp drug tests, are urinalysis. you'd know this already if you weren't naive

I've made the argument with lots of strongly pro-legalization folks that they should be investing in efforts to develop a reliable test for current intoxication. A lot of the strongest (in my view) anti-legalization arguments stem from the current difficulty to detect things like driving and coming to work under the influence.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#90

Post by conceit » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 12:03 AM UTC

doyoulikeworms wrote: post #25

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we have one terrible substance that is legal isn't a justification to legalize another.

Pot isn't a terrible substance. Especially not when compared to alcohol.

That's always a question of proportion. It's all in the mix. It's sure carcinogenic and surely beats the lung up in a lot of ways. It also does statistically, by my own observation, lead to a significant lack of all kinds of activities.

For example, it frequently leads to a lack of believe in - or even just consideration for - how terrible substance consumption is, over all if not for the sake of nutrition.