In the meanwhile NASA found a planet covered with marijuana. http://newswatch28.com/nasa-discovers-new-planet-covered-wit... Can these two agencies be in cahoots?
Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
81–90 of 376 posts
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stuff like Heroin and Meth don't legalize private sales but let drug counsellors hand it out to addicts to kill the illegal market, prevent them being harmed by contaminated drugs and stop them breaking and nicking stuff. That's the worst of both worlds. What will happen is a lot of people will become "addicts", get the drug (legally), then sell it to drug dealers to cash out. Criminals will keep their profits high…
Who will the drug dealers sell it to?
People who don't want to go through the hassle, or don't want to be associated with the stigma of, getting the drugs legally.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#83The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…
I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…
Oscar Wilde put it best: desire makes everything blossom and flourish; possession makes everything wither and fade.
Humans tend to want what they can't have - it's reactance in action.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#84It really is a difficult problem. Sweden legalized heroin in the 60s and it was a disaster. On the other hand, enforcement only has a moderate impact, but comes at a huge financial and social cost. And while I don't support it, the only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore, where you just hang anyone who has more than single dose in their possession. Maybe the grim reality is hanging a few hundred…
Singapore is somewhat unique in that it's a country with very restricted freedoms, which have been given up in exchange for security/safety. It's extraordinarily rule-bound, and, in many ways, is the antithesis of the United States, in which freedoms reign. In such a structured, government controlled and monitored society, all sorts of rules can be laid down, and enforced through strict punishment. I wouldn't try and…
> But I hope you're going to start with the really destructive ones, like Alcohol and Nicotine before you start looking at the less harmful ones such as cannabis.
Well, to be fair, I wouldn't mind executing alcoholics and smokers. But you can have the best of both worlds - provide help and healthcare to ones who have fallen in drug use and execute the ones who can't complete rehab.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#85What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances? I don't want to live in a society of drug addicts, I want to live among people of sound mind, body and spirit, who conduct themselves honestly and honourable among their…
> Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances?
Depression, anxiety, moderate mania, genetic dispositions to addiction... how do we "find" these? The unfortunately thing is, we've been trying this the world over for a century and no one is meaningfully closer. In the meantime, we're destroying families and feeding an industry worth 10's, hundreds of billions founded on illegal drug trade.
Thing is, you likely already do live in a society of drug addicts. Whether discussing decriminalization or legalization, what you're allowing is those addicts to step out into the sunlight, so the society can help them reduce or end their drug usage.
Remember that laws of morality are a very tricky thing, and tend usually to inadvertently oppress significant parts of a population. Allowing a society to internally act on its compassion instead of outsourcing responsibility to a law seems to have a better outcome.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#86The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…
I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…
Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs 15 years ago, which has given us some useful evidence. HIV infection rates and drug-related deaths have reduced significantly, and the prison population has reduced by over 50%. The proportion of people who have ever used drugs has increased slightly, but there has been a reduction in the number of regular drug users.
We don't really know what would happen in a laissez-faire system, but we can be fairly confident that a medicalised approach would have substantial positive effects.
https://www.unodc.org/documents/ungass2016/Contributions/Civ...
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#87I've always thought that, in the US, that States could provide a perfect market testing platform for various social ideas.
You don't want abortion? Make Kansas, say, a no abortion state.
Legalized drugs? Head your head to Colorado.
Socialism? Sure New Hampshire is almost there already anyway.
Well, you get the point. It's been proven that actual markets almost always work as well if not better than diktat, so these "experiments" could be monitored and all the rest.
I mean, why not give something totally new a try?
What we have now is killing people and ruining their lives as I personally live through its failings everyday.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> without (in most cases) hurt anyone else Surely you don't think the only victim in the drug trafficking industry are actually drug users?
I am pro legalization but I would never see a drug user as a victim. No more than an alcoholic driving a car is a victim. The flip side of freedom is responsibility. The state will not make decisions for you, and therefore you are responsible for your own decisions. It's not like if the long term effects of drugs aren't well and widely known.
One of the biggest problems with drugs is the addictiveness. You seem to have no problem with addictions, so let me inform you. It fucking sucks. Your entirely of being is focused on getting to that next respite of peace that only some substance seems to be able to provide. Goals? Fuck em. Job? Who cares. Commit crimes for cash? Absolutely.
The problem with hardcore drug use is that it literally strips you of your decision making capabilities. Many people describe it as a secondary being within their body, for damn good reason.
The only reason I ended up 'normal' and not an addict is that I had the support system in place to deal with the underlying issues that caused my reckless behaviour, before they led somewhere I had no coming back from.
My addiction started with Adderall, prescribed by a doctor.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#89The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…
> why do they persist with it? A few reasons present themselves
Also: theatre.
Much like a lot of airport/airline security measures are theatre to reassure the common people that something is being done, the war on drugs continues because people who don't know any better (or don't believe the ineffectiveness argument) will feel less safe if it officially stops or even steps down a notch. This situation perpetuates itself, and any escalation doesn't get reversed, and feeds into the politics point others have already mentioned because people feeling less safe are less likely to vote for you next time.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#90The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…
And yet, there are plenty of Asian countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, etc) where drug laws are much stricter than the US's, there are very few drug addicts, and there is very little crime.
I really find it absurd that stating facts is downvoted here on HN because it doesn't fit the hivemind. Singapore and Indonesia execute drug offenders and despite what I am told should happen in this thread, there is very little crime despite their crazier "War on Drugs". When compared to a country like Portugal, Singapore and Indonesia have far lower crime and drug use.