>... He Who Shall Not Be Named predictably rejects all of the studies that do not support his position as being “fatally flawed,” or as having been “refuted by experts”—namely, by himself and his close collaborators ... This speaks to part of the problem - the undue weight that non-scientists place on expert opinion. Trained scientists see appeal to authority arguments for what they are: bullshit. I see this most fre…
The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
81–90 of 163 posts
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#82"There is a veritable truckload of bullshit in science." Amen to that. :) I'm a bit tired of seeing critics of various hypotheses being dismissed out of hand simply "Because Science".
So that leaves us with the critics. If you can't be bothered to do the work and are taking potshots from the sidelines there really isn't likely to be much value in your criticism.
It's not impossible that there is value there, but the odds aren't very good at all, so you can't really blame people for not engaging with it easily. I agree it is unfortunate when people are quickly dismissive of an idea with "Because Science". But it remains true that by far the best answer to "Because Science" is, "Not, so fast, what about Science".
Picking at potential flaws in a study rarely adds much signal. Suggesting improvements and helping make those happen has potentially immense value.
Arguing about it on the internet usually has negative value.
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#83' Instead, “It’s about a methodology for investigation, which includes, at its core, a relentless drive towards questioning that which came before.” You can both “love science,” he concludes, “and question it.” ' I've noticed that questioning some scientific finding often makes people think I am either anti-science, anti-intellectual, conservative, religious, or any combination thereof (I am none of these). To state…
When you're discussing anything nontrivial it takes a lot of effort/knowledge to dispute a flawed argument (disproportionately harder than making one IMO) - disregarding someone on biases/agenda is a decent heuristic.
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#84And then there is the bullshit that permeates from science research into bullshit blogs that later folk people use to guide their decisions (and editors/writers use to drive ad prints): what to eat or not according to recent research, how to raise children or not acording to recent research, how long a workout, how to be happy, how to this and how not to that. The bullshit then jumps from blogs into everyday conversa…
Except there's no science research against vaccination, there's just hucksters publishing "work" on sites like PRWeb ($99/article).
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it does vary a lot by discipline. In my area of mathematics I don't recall ever hearing of it. For whatever it is worth I even published papers without my supervisor being on them at all, if he hadn't been involved in that work.
How does attribution and second/third authorship work if you "just" bounced ideas off your supervisor or fellow students in verbal discussions? I'm trying to gauge how strict attribution rules are in what I would consider a gray area.
In the situation you describe, the paper would probably be singly authored, and the author would write something like "Thanks to my advisor _____ and to my colleagues ____ for many helpful discussions" in an acknowledgments section.
If the contributions were more serious, then possibly the author would invite the others to co-author with him/her, and the others would then either accept (and then help write the paper) or politely decline and say "just mention me in the acknowledgments".
At least in my experience, co-authorship carries responsibilities: to help with the writing, the figures, references, dealing with editors and with submission to journals, speaking about the research at seminars/conferences, etc.
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#86>... He Who Shall Not Be Named predictably rejects all of the studies that do not support his position as being “fatally flawed,” or as having been “refuted by experts”—namely, by himself and his close collaborators ... This speaks to part of the problem - the undue weight that non-scientists place on expert opinion. Trained scientists see appeal to authority arguments for what they are: bullshit. I see this most fre…
As yes, it can be abused of course.
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#87This assumes that we know, a priori, what is bullshit and what is not. Sometimes bullshitters know they are bullshitting, but most often they do not.
What I think is really going on here is that the scientific method is crap for this sort of thing, there is no such thing as "empirical truth" that exists in the real world, and subjective debate, reasoning, and so on, is hard and requires enormous effort on all parts.
Let's consider another hypothetical work of bullshit by one Maleficent. I, an oblivious third party, come across her published work. How am I to know that this work is bullshit?
The traditional response is that we use the scientific method, verifiability and empiricism, to test the bounds of a proposed model against observation. "You said Planet X should be at y, but it is actually at z, therefore bullshit." To quote Laurence Laurentz: 'Would that it were so simple.'
The problem here is that observation is fraught, and is usually based on its own assumptions. For example, let's say Maleficent is studying treatments for depression; to do so she must observe whether an individual is "depressed" or "not depressed". How the fuck should she do this? Frequently people use questionnaire measures like the Beck Depression Inventory (BDI). Is this a valid tool? I have been heavily depressed when I scored low on the BDI, so I would say not. But what IS a valid tool? Is there any objective criterion we can bring to bear, here? What is it? Does "depression" even exist as a thing?
This problem, that observations are themselves laden with assumptions and based on pre-existing models, is a mire that all science is forced to wade through. Before we make decisions about anything, we must have a lens with which to view the world - but that, itself, is a decision!
More broadly speaking this is a problem with deductive reasoning, and because empiricism claims to be based on deductive reasoning it falls into error as a result. Because it is impossible to begin with truth, any scientific observation must be riddled through with approximations. And usually, we are unaware of the approximations that are blinding us when we build flawed models on top of them.
This is the main reason we get bullshit: there is no good way to do science.
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#88I read this as a thinly-veiled attack on prominent climate-change activists. I thought the author ended a bit abruptly; was expecting a comparison of the tactics used by the fictitious "Voldemort" to the real-life actions of Bill McKibben, Michael Mann, etc.
Notice how a couple Voldermorts have gone through the comments and down-voted anyone who questioned catastrophic global warming predictions. As Voldermorts are wont to do.
Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#89Re: The Unbearable Asymmetry of Bullshit
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does attribution and second/third authorship work if you "just" bounced ideas off your supervisor or fellow students in verbal discussions? I'm trying to gauge how strict attribution rules are in what I would consider a gray area.
In mathematics, multiple authors are always listed alphabetically by family name; ie there is no "first" or "second" author. In the situation you describe, the paper would probably be singly authored, and the author would write something like "Thanks to my advisor _____ and to my colleagues ____ for many helpful discussions" in an acknowledgments section. If the contributions were more serious, then possibly the auth…
For example: Mike Synder, a brilliant biologist, 'supervises' 36 postdocs, 13 research assistants, 11 research scientists, 9 visiting scientists, and 8 graduate students (http://snyderlab.stanford.edu/members3.html - thanks to Lior Pacter for noticing it).
In 2014, he had 42 published papers. How much scientific input do you think he had on each one?