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Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

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Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#81

Post by shawn-furyan »

ska wrote: post #64

One thing missing in the analysis is the fact that something approaching a fifth of the countries total population lives in and near one city (Toronto) that is nearly at the southernmost point of the country. Ontario in total has nearly 40% of the population, and most of that is pretty far south relative to much of the rest of the country.

I'm not sure it's exactly missing so much as not explicitly stated in that way. The author does partially attribute the misunderstanding to the mostly uninhabited northern territory of Canada. The author also says that Canada populates it's northern regions less than Russia does. So, the focus is more on people not being in the north than the fact that they are mostly in the south, but one conclusion casually follows from the other.

As I was reading it, I looked at the map, and concluded that a bunch of the population was likely in the Toronto area which juts well below the mean longitude of Canada's southern border.

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#82

Post by josephjrobison »

Ensorceled wrote: post #17

This is missing the point. People think of Canadians as tough hardy, northerners because it's -8C in Toronto and we've been having really nice February, last year it was like -20C all month. It's -12 in Montreal right now. It's still interesting to think about it but don't try to imply that it's not actually cold, bitter and rough sledding here because we're "south" of London. Because it's 8C in London right now.

Here's a better way to illustrate it rather than looking at a table of latitudes http://prntscr.com/a87wn7

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#83

Post by Ensorceled »

raattgift wrote: post #68
Ensorceled wrote: post #17

This is missing the point. People think of Canadians as tough hardy, northerners because it's -8C in Toronto and we've been having really nice February, last year it was like -20C all month. It's -12 in Montreal right now. It's still interesting to think about it but don't try to imply that it's not actually cold, bitter and rough sledding here because we're "south" of London. Because it's 8C in London right now.

Not just "south", but actually way south; Toronto is about 43.5 N; Central London is 51.5 N. There's 60 nautical miles between each degree of latitude, so for an 8 degree difference, that's a bit more than 888 km. Roughly the same distance further north from London and you arrive at Uppsala (north of Stockholm), and St Petersburg. Toronto is on roughly the same latitude as Cannes, Nice, Toulouse and Monaco -- the Côt…

I know, I went to London at New Year's and was gob-smacked at the realization I was NORTH of Moosonee.

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#84

Post by tonyarkles »

mpg33 wrote: post #61
mfoy_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-14C in Ottawa right now, it's the wind that makes it nippy, though.

+10C in St John's, NL right now.

-4C in Saskatoon, SK today.

The variation is really what makes it tricky. Sure, it's decent today. There's a predicted high of +8C, but Sunday night it's predicted to have a low of -22C. When you're outside in light clothes one day, and then need to bundle up like crazy 2 nights later... It starts to get to you.

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#85

Post by nommm-nommm »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #35

Saw a population map of Canada once. There's a thick line right along the US-Canada border. Its as if Canadians want to be Canadian, but really don't want to live there. They go as far south as possible while still technically being in Canada. (Not counting big coastal cities).

It takes a serious flaw in reasoning to look at a map, see a large population lives near an international border, and then conclude that those people don't want to live in their country.

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#86

Post by flexie »

bnegreve wrote: post #3

It doesn't make much sense to compare temperatures at latitudes from different sides of the Atlantic ocean. The Gulf Stream [1] makes the European cost a lot warmer at the same latitude. E.g. NYC is colder than North of Spain despite being roughly at the same latitude. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream

Temperature is just a part of it. Light is another. And the populated part of Canada - being much more southern than most people realise - has light that compares to southern France, not to Scandinavia or Alaska.

Whenever I am back in Scandinavia I am struck by how dim it always is. Eternal dusk.

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#87

Post by david-given »

parennoob wrote: post #11
Amir6 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about north or weather being cold? I know for many regions one translates to another but assuming they are the same thing is what "doesn't make sense". In this post, the author is talking about NORTH.

In popular culture and public consciousness, the two are equated very often. See, for example, the latest hit show - Game of Thrones which shows a very cold, hardy North and a warm, indolent South. Now I know these specific books that the show is based on derive from the Wars of the Roses -- but have you ever a fantasy writer who put people on the Southern hemisphere of their planet and made the North warm?

I used to have a theory that you could tell where a fantasy author lived from the shape of their map. e.g. Maurice Gee's _The Halfmen of O_ --- good book, BTW --- has got the warm ocean to the north, with the snowy mountains to the south. He's a New Zealander.

Unfortunately, authors are way too aware of this now. I'm currently reading Jane Lindskold's Firekeeper quintet --- also really good --- and they're set on the west coast of a continent, called the New World, which was settled a couple of centuries ago by civilisations from across the sea to the East. She's American.

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#88

Post by musha68k »

mfoy_ wrote: post #78
musha68k wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I guess - but hey in my own defence, as somebody working with distributed systems I've seen too many a simplistic world-view blow up in my own face :) Even though I'm not a fan of it, there is a reason for the old ops adage of "never touch a running system". Complexity is hard (i.e. global climate) and even if life on earth is essentially anti-fragile that might not include our own cohort. Also, I just might ha…

I think your message is coming off as too much like "The answer is obvious! Wake up sheeple!"

Yupp indeed, hubris is not a virtue!

Even if maybe off-topic and too self-important - Joseph Tainter's writings might be interesting to anyone wary of the hidden complexities surrounding us:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Tainter#Diminishing_ret...

Also an IMHO very insightful interview with Mr. Tainter on the omegatau podcast:

"Societal Complexity and Collapse"

http://omegataupodcast.net/2015/10/184-societal-complexity-a...

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#89

Post by nommm-nommm »

xutopia wrote: post #55

I heard somewhere that 90% of Canadians live within 100km (about 62 miles) of the US border. It's partly for that reason I don't buy the telecom's insistance that prices are higher because of the huge amount of land they have to cover.

The claim is actually 100 miles (161km).

Re: Canadians don’t live as far north as you think

#90

Post by dasil003 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #56
Ensorceled wrote: post #17

This is missing the point. People think of Canadians as tough hardy, northerners because it's -8C in Toronto and we've been having really nice February, last year it was like -20C all month. It's -12 in Montreal right now. It's still interesting to think about it but don't try to imply that it's not actually cold, bitter and rough sledding here because we're "south" of London. Because it's 8C in London right now.

The point is that many Americans treat 'Canada' as a bucket in which everything is cold weather. And yet the whole swathe of the northern states Minnesota, North Dakota, upper Michigan, etc. are _significantly_ further north and colder than where the bulk of the Canadian population is. I once had a coworker from Atlanta at our office in Toronto. Overheard him on the phone talking to his wife, gobsmacked by the cold,…

It's an interesting climate over there because of the continentality plus the moderating influence of the lakes. For instance, I am from Minneapolis which is much colder than Toronto in the winter and also much hotter in the summer (in fact our record high is higher than Florida's record high, but I digress).
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