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Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

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Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#81

Post by ktRolster »

latj wrote: post #12
dominotw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Graham would disagree with you on that definition of Poverty. In his world poor people can wake up one fine day and start a business. Aaron : What drove the decision to go start a business? Paul : Poverty. Aaron : Poverty. Paul : I was tired of being poor. I was working as a freelance programmer, and it was this sort of boom/bust thing where I would get money and then I would run out of money, and then it would…

Thats not what I think of when I think of poverty. Paul got tired of being broke. When you're tired of being broke, but you're educated, young, healthy, and/or from a privileged class-- you go to school, open a business, hustle, whatever. People living in poverty live the lives they do for various reasons-- born into poverty, low education, mental illness, substance abuse, poor health, elderly, single mothers raising…

   > Poverty (in my mind) means you are stuck on an island where every nation around has guns pointed at you so you cant leave and there are only dirty cookies to eat.
I think your mind is the only one that has that definition.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#82

Post by barney54 »

kuschku wrote: post #61
Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

Nuclear Fission? Safe? As long as for-profit companies are running the reactors, they’ll end up saving everywhere, and, like we’ve seen before and before, it ends up in meltdowns (for example, due to refusing to maintain the emergency generators properly, see fukushima). Any way you try to handle this issue, someone will abuse it. Make it a governmentally funded operation, people will end up corrupt and use money for…

And how many people have died or been injured from private companies running nuclear reactors. There should be some good examples, right?

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#83

Post by prawn »

alexashka wrote: post #23

Oh Bill, oh Melinda... There is so much wrong with their thinking it's sad. Here's one example: "If you’re an American, three out of four moms at your school have a job. Your father probably does at least some cooking. There’s a 35 percent chance you live with one parent" She mentions these things in passing and goes on to claim how women do more 'unpaid' work and that that needs to change. Really Melinda? You think…

How did you so thoroughly miss their point and intent?

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#84

Post by crackpotbaker »

clock_tower wrote: post #80
crackpotbaker wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of the USA cattle industry is based on dirt cheap soybean and corn, grass-fed beef is less sustainable and productive, you just cannot expect the same growth of cows body given that low protein intake, + the area needed is extremely huge and simple calculations dictate that one would have to grass-feed the cows using the whole area of North America and north parts of the South (assuming all of it is rich soil) t…

But all the same, there's room for some meat (and more milk and eggs) in the diet, thanks to cows, chickens, and so on being able to eat things that humans can't. Eating meat every day is probably unsustainable, but veganism is too far the other way.

This repetition is irrational.

Given all the evidence there should be no meat, milk and eggs in the diet of developing countries.

How does a growing economy cope with costs of heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer?

WHO report said 50 grams of processed meat per day significantly increases chances of colorectal cancer (causation proof). 50 grams of red meat correlates with all-cause mortality (causation being published). White meat is filled with cholesterol which is the main cause of heart related diseases.

This is something that from an economic perspective shouldn't plague the developing countries, ignoring the energy needs.

50 grams daily is 350 grams weekly, about 18kg of meat per year per person. USA consumes ~100kg of meat per year per person. China is 50kg - and has just in the last 40 years risen from poverty. Just imagine India doing the same, Africa.

If you think people are being moderate, they aren't. This luxurious culture cannot be rationally apologized.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#85

Post by alexashka »

prawn wrote: post #83
alexashka wrote: post #23

Oh Bill, oh Melinda... There is so much wrong with their thinking it's sad. Here's one example: "If you’re an American, three out of four moms at your school have a job. Your father probably does at least some cooking. There’s a 35 percent chance you live with one parent" She mentions these things in passing and goes on to claim how women do more 'unpaid' work and that that needs to change. Really Melinda? You think…

How did you so thoroughly miss their point and intent?

Passive aggressive rhetorical questions huh...

On forums and in real life, it is best to avoid inviting a punch to the face. You must have grown up without getting hurt, like Bill and Melinda Gates :)

See how perhaps it is you missing my point but thinking I am missing theirs?

Now one way to settle this is for you to tell me what you think their point and intent is, that way we can move past me explaining your privileged arrogance and lack of manners.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#86

Post by DanBC »

crackpotbaker wrote: post #84
clock_tower wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all the same, there's room for some meat (and more milk and eggs) in the diet, thanks to cows, chickens, and so on being able to eat things that humans can't. Eating meat every day is probably unsustainable, but veganism is too far the other way.

This repetition is irrational. Given all the evidence there should be no meat, milk and eggs in the diet of developing countries. How does a growing economy cope with costs of heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer? WHO report said 50 grams of processed meat per day significantly increases chances of colorectal cancer (causation proof). 50 grams of red meat correlates with all-cause mortality (causation being publi…

> WHO report said 50 grams of processed meat per day significantly increases chances of colorectal cancer (causational proof).

Go careful. WHO said we now know that processed meat causes cancer. But the risk was tiny, and the increased risk is still tiny.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#87

Post by crackpotbaker »

DanBC wrote: post #86
crackpotbaker wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This repetition is irrational. Given all the evidence there should be no meat, milk and eggs in the diet of developing countries. How does a growing economy cope with costs of heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer? WHO report said 50 grams of processed meat per day significantly increases chances of colorectal cancer (causation proof). 50 grams of red meat correlates with all-cause mortality (causation being publi…

> WHO report said 50 grams of processed meat per day significantly increases chances of colorectal cancer (causational proof). Go careful. WHO said we now know that processed meat causes cancer. But the risk was tiny, and the increased risk is still tiny.

Everyone is nitpicking bits and pieces of my answers. First the culture, then the sustainability, now health.

Yes, I'm quite aware of the results, and authors of that large scale study, and the paper, the same authors published the all-cause mortality study too (also based on 50 grams), which WHO decided not to reference. There's plenty of evidence, WHO is pretty much years behind that evidence, if not decades.

There's nothing to discuss. Yes, the increase is 17%, which given the low chance of colorectal isn't that much of a big deal but the increase is significant, although, cardiovascular disease increase is much bigger, obesity huge.

The moderate "healthy" amount is really vague.

If I were trying to positively influence the developing world, imposing energy/water/resource hungry animal agriculture business wouldn't be a first step. It's irrational to consider it.

> Freedom of Information Act documents reveal that the U.S. Department of Agriculture warned the egg industry that saying eggs are nutritious or safe may violate rules against false and misleading advertising.

When the evidence for meat and dairy ends up documented in 5000 papers, I guess the same will happen with them, same thing happened with cigarettes after thousands of papers. It takes time, but the evidence provided is sufficient now.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#88

Post by alanh »

subpixel wrote: post #65
Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

This rings very true to me. My wife is also from a so-called third-world country. A stunningly beautiful one at that. Every time I visit I dream of moving there. Once I found a Swiss guy, in the middle of absolutely nowhere, who had started a small farm and an operation dealing in a very specific kind of beef cattle, and esp. breeding. He even had an awesome little restaurant serving schnitzel and beer. I think he mo…

Thoroughly infuriating. Enough to make a man go John McAfee, I would imagine.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#89

Post by clock_tower »

crackpotbaker wrote: post #84
clock_tower wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all the same, there's room for some meat (and more milk and eggs) in the diet, thanks to cows, chickens, and so on being able to eat things that humans can't. Eating meat every day is probably unsustainable, but veganism is too far the other way.

This repetition is irrational. Given all the evidence there should be no meat, milk and eggs in the diet of developing countries. How does a growing economy cope with costs of heart disease, obesity, diabetes, cancer? WHO report said 50 grams of processed meat per day significantly increases chances of colorectal cancer (causation proof). 50 grams of red meat correlates with all-cause mortality (causation being publi…

No meat, milk, or eggs at all means leaving a lot of potential nutrition on the table. Chickens (and goats) can eat vegetable waste and the like; cows can eat waste from harvesting, and of course can graze -- an activity that doesn't require significant human labor or expenditure on fuel and tools.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates 2016 Annual Letter

#90

Post by DigitalJack »

tryitnow wrote: post #57
Mikeb85 wrote: post #47

> A cheap, clean source of energy would change everything. Like nuclear fission? Or how about solar? Anyhow, while I think the intentions are good, my experience in 3rd world countries has me convinced that all the charity in the world won't help. In general, the problem in 3rd world countries isn't education, or sanitation, or lack of capital, or mosquito nets, etc... The problem is corruption and safety. I've seen…

I don't know if there's much that Gates can do about corruption. That's something that might have to take it's natural course and weed itself out (like it has partly done in the US and other developed nations). In the mean time I think Gates wants to do something rather than nothing and things like mosquito nets apparently do save lives. The people whose lives are saved may not be able to prosper, but they're most li…

I don't know. Corruption in Mexico is getting worse. I don't think it's going to work itself out.
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