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Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

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Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#81

Post by drewr »

Groxx wrote: post #19
swombat wrote: post #3

Time for the other so-called broadband providers to shake in their boots. I like companies that have no respect for established business models. In this perspective, despite its size, I think it's fair to call Google a start-up.

I forget where the link was (I think somewhere on yc), but it showed a chart of internet access speed through a few years, rated by countries. Most of the large-nation world had grown by 10%+, many over 50%, in a few years, while the US had dropped by a couple percent. This is in addition to most of those countries being higher already, so it's not merely a 5kbps -> 8kbps jump. My price for internet access not going…

There is the possibility that the providers aren't intentionally gouging their customers. Even though the market is small, there is enough of a market to drive prices down. I think it's much more likely that those companies are just so horribly inefficient that it really does cost them a lot to provide you with high-speed access.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#83

Post by khafra »

nollidge wrote: post #69
tjogin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that what it was? Because I think it sounded a lot like scandinavia sighing that we've had this for a decade. (I'm sure other countries has too, the US really has backwater infrastructure.)

Admittedly this probably has a lot to do with luddite technology policy, but surely it has more to do with the U.S. having 10 times the land mass and 15 times the population as Scandanavia [1]. [1] Stats from Wikipedia, summing Norway + Sweden + Denmark area and most recent population vs. United States.

If we've got 10 times the land mass and 15 times the population, and rolling out speedy broadband is more cost-effective given greater population density, doesn't that mean the US should be faster and cheaper than Scandinavia, not slower and more expensive?

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#85

Post by mixmax »

nollidge wrote: post #69
tjogin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that what it was? Because I think it sounded a lot like scandinavia sighing that we've had this for a decade. (I'm sure other countries has too, the US really has backwater infrastructure.)

Admittedly this probably has a lot to do with luddite technology policy, but surely it has more to do with the U.S. having 10 times the land mass and 15 times the population as Scandanavia [1]. [1] Stats from Wikipedia, summing Norway + Sweden + Denmark area and most recent population vs. United States.

Having a larger userbase should actually make your service cheaper since you can spread your fixed costs across more users and get serious economies of scale.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#86

Post by Mankhool »

tjic wrote: post #10
pavs wrote: post #6

This will shake up the broadband industry the same way ebook readers are transforming the publishing industry. This is HUGE. I am in NY and I am waiting for years for fios in my area. Hopefully this adoption will move faster than FIOS.

You may have a problem in NY. In general, the more built up a place is, the more vested interests there are, and the more they are able to manipulate the legislative process. Google moves at Internet speed. Out in the "real world", it's still illegal to sell cars and wine over the Internet, because the local car and liquor distributors have gotten their preferences written into the law. You may find that Google can't…

Therein lies the opportunity. An abundant inventory of dark fibre. The financial resources to lay the foundation for a new city. Everyone will have fibre to their door. I'm no fanboy, but Googleville anyone?

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#87

Post by nollidge »

tjogin wrote: post #79
nollidge wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly this probably has a lot to do with luddite technology policy, but surely it has more to do with the U.S. having 10 times the land mass and 15 times the population as Scandanavia [1]. [1] Stats from Wikipedia, summing Norway + Sweden + Denmark area and most recent population vs. United States.

Actually, Norway and Sweden has a lower population density than the US has; we've got even more land mass per person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependenc... I think it has more to do with that we don't leave infrastructure development squarely in the hands of the market.

> Actually, Norway and Sweden has a lower population density

I realize that. The multipliers I gave necessarily imply exactly that: 15x pop. and 10x area => U.S. has 1.5x the population density.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#88

Post by nollidge »

khafra wrote: post #83
nollidge wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly this probably has a lot to do with luddite technology policy, but surely it has more to do with the U.S. having 10 times the land mass and 15 times the population as Scandanavia [1]. [1] Stats from Wikipedia, summing Norway + Sweden + Denmark area and most recent population vs. United States.

If we've got 10 times the land mass and 15 times the population, and rolling out speedy broadband is more cost-effective given greater population density, doesn't that mean the US should be faster and cheaper than Scandinavia, not slower and more expensive ?

Perhaps I'm not thinking about this clearly, but I'm figuring that greater population density makes it less cost-effective because you have more endpoints, and therefore need more network branching, more wires, more intermediate nodes, more digging, and more time per square km.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#89

Post by wtallis »

drewr wrote: post #81
Groxx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forget where the link was (I think somewhere on yc), but it showed a chart of internet access speed through a few years, rated by countries. Most of the large-nation world had grown by 10%+, many over 50%, in a few years, while the US had dropped by a couple percent. This is in addition to most of those countries being higher already, so it's not merely a 5kbps -> 8kbps jump. My price for internet access not going…

There is the possibility that the providers aren't intentionally gouging their customers. Even though the market is small, there is enough of a market to drive prices down. I think it's much more likely that those companies are just so horribly inefficient that it really does cost them a lot to provide you with high-speed access.

Several years ago my family got cable internet from Time Warner. The modem/router they provided was one of the first models to support DOCSIS 3.0. We stayed with Time Warner for at least 2 years, and they never rolled out DOCSIS 3 support at their end. The maximum speed we could get from them was 6Mbps. We're now using DSL, and the maximum we can get is 6Mbps, though with more reliability than from cable.

The nearest cable box is next to our neighbor's driveway. The phone company has fiber to their box in our other neighbor's yard.

There's enough competition to keep price inflation mostly at bay, but there clearly isn't enough to convince the ISPs to invest in the equipment that would be able to give us connections that are four times faster. Efficiency doesn't have a lot to do with it. For all practical purposes, our local ISPs aren't spending any money to improve service in areas that already have some service.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#90

Post by grinich »

gbookman wrote: post #42
imgabe wrote: post #23

Or downloading a high-definition, full-length feature film in less than five minutes. Did you hear that? It sounded as if millions of hollywood executives suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...

The sad thing is that hollywood execs are scared by news like this when they should be looking at it as an opportunity. The ability to download a full HD movie in <5 minutes opens up a treasure trove of revenue possibilities. It makes content delivery much more convenient and thus much more compelling for customers.

I think purchasing will become much more of an impulse decision— much like what the App Store has done with software.
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