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On Marrying the Wrong Person

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Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#81

Post by gohrt »

rayiner wrote: post #65
epimetheus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unless you're celibate Pretty much, rough marriage, sex with each other isn't something they want even if you do. Needless to say, more than 12 months go by between 'action.' Right now we are together for finances and the kiddo. But I still have to deal with all of the negatives. I might hook up with others once everything is normal, but really the primary motivator isn't sex or a better mate, it's just freedom to b…

Your precise situation is a common theory for why women disproportionately initiate divorce.

But, in aggregate, women, more so than men, understand that raising children is a significant and valuable career choice.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#82

Post by [deleted] »

dsajames wrote: post #32
santaclause33 wrote: post #11

Three notes I would add: 1) In response to the "know yourself" bullet: I met my now wife at 15 - we learned a lot about ourselves between then and when we married at age 22. But we were pretty much committed to marrying by age 18, even though we learned a lot after. You can learn with another person. 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if…

Dude, your #2 is spot on. It has caused untold problems in my marriage and almost led to a divorce.

[deleted]

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#83

Post by philovivero »

This is a great article. There are some things it doesn't point out.

1) Marriage is a contract, but unlike most contracts, its terms and conditions can change at any time without the consent or knowledge of either party. That is to say, politicians decide the terms and conditions, and your marriage isn't grandfathered through with the laws in place at the time it was consummated.

2) As of today, the outcome of divorce (how assets are distributed) is overwhelmingly in favor of the female, assuming a mixed-gender marriage. This is one of the reasons for the large gap in divorce initiations: women profit far more, and thus more often end the marriage.

There are a couple more conclusions you can draw about whether you should do more due diligence on the person you're about to marry.

1) If you're female, you can be far less concerned. If it turns out to be the wrong guy, just divorce him. If anything, you'll get assets and a livable wage for no effort for years.

2) If you're male, you should be far more concerned. You need to do 10-50x more work vetting your future partner than your parents and grandparents did.

3) The divorce laws in 5 years may be completely different than today. Be sure to plan for how the political climate will change in the future.

I have been married more than once, so as you can imagine, I've had to put a lot of thought into this matter. The marriage that ended is responsible for reducing my wages, which should lead me to living comfortably in San Francisco, to being required to live with roommates. There is a large amount of danger involved in marriage, so make sure you understand the dangers before pulling the trigger.

EDIT: The reduction in income also has prevented me from working at several really great startups and instead having to slave at more profitable companies like ad networks etc. These go against my moral compass, so for me, at least, divorce also led to me having to contribute to increasing evil in the world. This is a huge personal hit that is hard to understate.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#84

Post by cgriswald »

aussieindian wrote: post #59
epimetheus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unless you're celibate Pretty much, rough marriage, sex with each other isn't something they want even if you do. Needless to say, more than 12 months go by between 'action.' Right now we are together for finances and the kiddo. But I still have to deal with all of the negatives. I might hook up with others once everything is normal, but really the primary motivator isn't sex or a better mate, it's just freedom to b…

Focus on your happiness mate and rest will fall together. Suddenly you will become desirable once you do that and get rid of bad habits like needy behavior. I would suggest focus on health as well and do some lifting and read the book "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover and look for references on the web.

I was in a similar situation to the GP. Desirability and bad habits are not the issues. You're blaming the victim.

You can't compete against someone else's selfishness. You will lose every time. The only thing to do is to walk away, but in the context of a marriage, it's not easy to do.

My ex is still indescribably selfish five years later. She still wants to appear to be a good mother at the expense of actually being a good mother. She still tries to sacrifice my career and passions so that she can suit her whims. She tries to push our daughter on me during her custody period all the time (after fighting for more custody and costing us both $$$). And she still blames me, through a series of seriously twisted thoughts, for the dissolution of our marriage.

During the marriage, surviving her selfishness was the only thing possible. It wasn't that I wasn't focusing on my health and happiness. It was that those things were being taken from me more quickly than I could generate them. And I had to protect my child's psyche from her as well.

I don't think anyone would describe me as a "nice guy". I have a very low tolerance for bullshit and have no problems saying exactly how I feel or saying no. But I expect a partner in a relationship, not someone who I have to grab by the scruff of the neck in order to get them to not be a shitty person.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#85

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

k__ wrote: post #23
santaclause33 wrote: post #11

Three notes I would add: 1) In response to the "know yourself" bullet: I met my now wife at 15 - we learned a lot about ourselves between then and when we married at age 22. But we were pretty much committed to marrying by age 18, even though we learned a lot after. You can learn with another person. 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if…

Yes, same goes for my brother, but I don't know how much of it relies on premise, that they can't live without each other anymore, because their life's are so entangled. I mean he is 31 and they came together when he was 16 and she was 15. They experienced their whole adult life together. They split for about 4 months but came together again, probably because of this. On the other hand, I'm the complete opposite, so…

I've heard many people talk about a "two-year cliff". The exact date is immaterial, but for many there's a point in a relationship where it's going to continue a long time or die out. I think this plays a major role.

Basically, that's about how long it takes to really recognize people's patterns. Everyone has stuff like this, particular irrationalities and foibles that are, in general, not so good. The first time they happen, it's a new experience and you just deal with it. The next time it happens, there might be some added frustration and a sense of familiarity. The third or fourth, and you're really starting to get desperate if you haven't found a way to deal with it.

If you can recognize your partner's patterns and deal with them, you'll both benefit greatly. Sometimes it's like a switch has been flipped and you know with certainty that they're being irrational in their particular way. With some empathy and perhaps a little cleverness, you can deal with this effectively. However, if you miss your chance, the frustration kicks in with a vengeance. The same well-worn argument can feel inevitable and downright despairing.

I think most successful relationships deal with this through some combination of patience and empathy, but also with some good match-making. Some people are just better able to tolerate particular faults better than others.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#86

Post by nashashmi »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #18
santaclause33 wrote: post #11

Three notes I would add: 1) In response to the "know yourself" bullet: I met my now wife at 15 - we learned a lot about ourselves between then and when we married at age 22. But we were pretty much committed to marrying by age 18, even though we learned a lot after. You can learn with another person. 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if…

> 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if someone is behaving irrationally, 99% of the time its because they are subconciously insecure about something. How about the possibility that they are tired of their partner? The irrationality might come from the fact that they are bound to them (e.g. marriage) and feel pressure to not break that ap…

> How about the possibility that they are tired of their partner?

Then that goes to point #3. People who are "tired" of their marriage are the type who have little patience, persistence, hope, tools to fix their marriage. That is why they keep divorcing, because they can never feel complacent with what they have.

As far as the insecurity goes, it is like a pandora's box where all ills are born. They don't just affect marriage. They affect everything.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#87

Post by kazinator »

Cerium wrote: post #35
kazinator wrote: post #3

There is "wrong person for you" and "wrong person for anyone ". The latter, you must avoid at all costs.

My grandparents met when they were both engaged to other people. The story goes that my grandfather came home that day and told his fiancee that: "I met another woman and while I do not know if she is the right one I have learned that you are the wrong one". He ended up marrying that woman he met that day and living happily together for more than sixty years. The fiancee found someone else and lived happily as well.…

> They are just as dangerous as the wrong person for yourself.

Sure. Remember these words when someone drains your life savings to pay for a cocaine habit. :)

If you're able to see through people a mile away and completely avoid getting mixed up with ones who are either wrong or just wrong for you, then it doesn't make a difference.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#88

Post by chm »

gyardley wrote: post #62

For men who had a bit of an awkward childhood (like, say, me, and perhaps some of you as well), perhaps the most important bit of advice about marriage is that your first serious relationship, should it happen to end, will not end up being the only one you ever have, and that "we've already been together for an appropriately long period of time" is not remotely a legitimate reason to get married. Should there not be…

I agree with your last paragraph except for one point. Libido can and does change, but it's (from my experience) not controllable. OTOH, you can work on your communication skills, or even convince someone that, e.g. spending more money on trips than on clothing is better (i.e. influence one's values). Not even great communication between partners will fix a libido mismatch, it's not something that can be rationalized.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#89

Post by lakesta »

Seems like the biggest thing of all is forgotten here - people change. Even if you marry the right person, they won't be that same person a year out and you won't be either so it doesn't really matter who you married or who you were when you married. Sure there are some people who are really really wrong for one another but outside of that, everyone is going to "marry the wrong person". If they're not the wrong person when you marry them, just wait longer. There's a book that covers this as well as a lot of other misnomers on marriage and how to work through them, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054TVVPK
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