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Everyone’s offended these days

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Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#81

Post by capitalsigma »

tomp wrote: post #44
krig wrote: post #33

This is a complete misunderstanding of what that quote from Stephen Fry is saying. Of course people get offended. Everyone get offended all the time! So what? He's doing exactly the right thing: He isn't having fun using Twitter, so he stops using it. He's not claiming that getting offended is somehow beneath him, he's saying that getting offended is no big deal. It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him…

Came here to post this. The author of this post just made the biggest possible strawman: > “Now the pool is stagnant, …frothy with scum.” Fry’s feelings aren’t feelings — they are a universal and objective standard of behavior, which everyone else is violating. When he says "stagnant, frothy with scum" I don't interpret that as him complaining about his feelings , but rather that the discussion / communication (which…

> but rather that the discussion/communication

So you mean he's not offended --- rather, the other people violated some universal standard of behavior?

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#82

Post by Mithaldu »

krig wrote: post #79
Mithaldu wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed what he was saying. He's saying that Fry has feelings. He has an urge to talk about the feelings he has, but simultaneously feels he can't mention they're his feelings. So he rationalizes it into objective facts (which also prevents people from answering usefully). In short: He says Fry is trying to claim his subjective views as objective facts.

His whole blog post is him talking about his feelings. Those are his feelings.

Exactly. Fry is writing about his feelings. Yet almost all of it uses the vocabulary of someone describing immutable and unarguable facts about the state of twitter.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#83

Post by _xhok »

hyperpape wrote: post #56
_xhok wrote: post #14

There's a bit of nuance needed re: the paragraphs near the start. Offended people tend to expect others to cater to them. Stephen doesn't; he's simply explaining why people are wrong: for treating "I'm offended" as something that should be pandered to. That isn't the same. The author seems to be suggesting that because everyone thinks their behavior is universal and objective, one cannot justifiably make this claim,…

"Maybe; but Fry never tries to invalidate others' feelings." "“Will all you sanctimonious fuckers fuck the fuck off Jenny Beavan is a friend and joshing is legitimate." Really?

Some guy makes an inside joke to a female friend that in public might to some group be considered sexist. Someone nearby hears him and yells "this guy's sexist" and soon he's swarmed by an angry mob. "Oh for fuck's sake fuck off you sanctimonious fuckers," he says with exasperation. That's not quite "invalidating others' feelings" in the sense we're talking about, is it?

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#84

Post by Gorbzel »

Article makes some good points, but then rolls into an increasingly common "nerd" talking point that completely undercuts the point:

"It’s fine that no one cares about whatever dorky thing you’re into, but wow why would you make fun of the sacred and hallowed Super Bowl, which is so important to so many people, how could you be so inconsiderate"

and the strawman couldn't be more blatant absent some flame emoji.

Now, she didn't reference the tweets which provided the supposed context, but everyone's probably heard the "Ha ha, sportsball!" jokes from people who don't enjoy athletics. The problem isn't that people are making jokes about the popularity of sports, it's that the joke really isn't funny. Instead, it perpetuates the behavior the author claims to oppose — rather than be pleasant with one another and take at least a conversational interest in what someone's saying...let's be inconsiderate and vitriolic about one another's hobbies! This is wrong whether said hobby is football or League cosplay.

"I don’t think too many people are wanting for someone who’ll listen to them talk about football."

The strawman continues with vague references to undefined populations that strip people of their individuality. They're all rude sports bros, while we're enlightened board gamers.

"Yet I haven’t seen any comics and snarky jokes suggesting that sports fans listen to their friends rave about Warhammer.

Must not have been paying too much attention. Here ya go, guy is a pretty popular standup who notoriously loves nerds, hates sports, and has a show discussing internet culture with three comedians every weeknight(!). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hardwick

At this point, you may be asking. Wait — this started about Stephen Fry and Twitter...why are we now talking about nerds vs sports? I'd ask the same thing of the author. The section is poorly though-out and explains nothing about power dynamics; Was hatred of one another's interest the most appropriate horse to hitch the "serious discussion of Twitter mobs" wagon to?

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#85

Post by cconroy »

jdietrich wrote: post #80
cconroy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know Fry but he isn't handling things as well as Dawkins does it seems. Dawkins has a hilarious video of him reading the most hateful tweets. You have to be careful. Some of the people who complain about others being offended all the time are the biggest babies. [Edit] If he is leaving bc it is no fun anymore that is an excellent reason.

Stephen Fry has bipolar disorder. His most recent suicide attempt was in 2012. His decision to leave Twitter is entirely understandable and sensible.

Did not know that and that is important context. I hope he is receiving proper medical treatment and wish him the best.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#86

Post by hartpuff »

krig wrote: post #33

This is a complete misunderstanding of what that quote from Stephen Fry is saying. Of course people get offended. Everyone get offended all the time! So what? He's doing exactly the right thing: He isn't having fun using Twitter, so he stops using it. He's not claiming that getting offended is somehow beneath him, he's saying that getting offended is no big deal. It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him…

> It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him leaving Twitter

When I clicked this link I (genuinely) had to check the date, because Fry has been flouncing from Twitter for years.

And yes, flouncing is the word. Fry could quite easily stop using Twitter if he wanted to. He could just stop using it.

Instead he, not "everyone else", writes a lengthy post about the event on his website, perhaps for anyone who missed his leaving Twitter announcement of 2014, or his 2009 announcement about leaving Twitter.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#87

Post by krig »

Mithaldu wrote: post #82
krig wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His whole blog post is him talking about his feelings. Those are his feelings.

Exactly. Fry is writing about his feelings. Yet almost all of it uses the vocabulary of someone describing immutable and unarguable facts about the state of twitter.

I don't get it, both you and the blogger seems to think that this is revealing some big gotcha, that haha! Fry is hiding his feelings! But it isn't, there is no gotcha, those are his feelings. To him, Twitter is a cesspool, those are his feelings about it. So, he stops using it and he feels better.

There are no objective facts to be had regarding the state of Twitter. This is not physics or mathematics. The state of twitter is entirely subjective. How is Fry ever denying this?

"uses the vocabulary of someone describing immutable and unarguable facts".. What does that even mean? It's using the vocabulary of Stephen Fry talking about this thing that annoyed him and how distancing himself from it made him feel better. It is entirely about his feelings.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#88

Post by jimbokun »

cconroy wrote: post #62
wavefunction wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dawkins and everyone else in the world are certainly entitled to express themselves, but there are also repercussions for that expression. He's said some rather dim-witted stuff about religions in general and some religions in particular and while I will defend to the death his right to say those things, it doesn't reflect all that well on his person imo.

What is the worst thing he said that was dim-witted that you remember off hand? Generally curious, he defends his positions rather well I believe.

I think his comment about Muslims and Nobel Prizes was not one of his finer moments.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/08/richard...

It's one of those comments that was so obviously stupid and pointless, its difficult to know where to start in responding to it.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#89

Post by krig »

hartpuff wrote: post #86
krig wrote: post #33

This is a complete misunderstanding of what that quote from Stephen Fry is saying. Of course people get offended. Everyone get offended all the time! So what? He's doing exactly the right thing: He isn't having fun using Twitter, so he stops using it. He's not claiming that getting offended is somehow beneath him, he's saying that getting offended is no big deal. It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him…

> It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him leaving Twitter When I clicked this link I (genuinely) had to check the date, because Fry has been flouncing from Twitter for years. And yes, flouncing is the word. Fry could quite easily stop using Twitter if he wanted to. He could just stop using it. Instead he, not "everyone else", writes a lengthy post about the event on his website, perhaps for anyone who…

How is writing a lengthy post about your feelings on your website making a big deal about anything? That's what your website is there for. It's a public diary where people who care about what you think can read your thoughts.

That he has quit Twitter before makes it even more of a non-event, if possible.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#90

Post by Vaskivo »

krig wrote: post #33

This is a complete misunderstanding of what that quote from Stephen Fry is saying. Of course people get offended. Everyone get offended all the time! So what? He's doing exactly the right thing: He isn't having fun using Twitter, so he stops using it. He's not claiming that getting offended is somehow beneath him, he's saying that getting offended is no big deal. It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him…

Exactly!

We have a saying in Portugal: "Quem está mal que se mude" that can be roughly translated to "Who doesn't feel well [here] should/can move". It mean that anyone who is unconfortable here isn't obliged to stay here and is free to go anywhere else.

That's what Fry did. He is not happy with/in Twitter, so he went away. His "‘I am offended by that.’ Well, so fucking what." remark remains sound.

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