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Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

peternixey.com

81–90 of 108 posts

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#81
Make no mistake even as a moral problem the wealth gap isn't just about empathy. The wealth gap is unjust, unfair and immoral.

Fairness implies that the wealth you generate as an individual is equivalent to the wealth you earn and own.

Right now 1% of the population owns 50% of the worlds wealth.

For 1% of the world to own 50% of the worlds wealth implies that 1% of the world generated 50% of the worlds' wealth.

It is not physically possible for a fraction of the human population to generate half the worlds' wealth. There is no reality where this makes sense. Thus for 1% of the population to own 50% of the worlds wealth, the 1% must obtain wealth generated by other people.

A common example of how this happens is through the ownership of a corporation. As an owner you own all the wealth generated by people who work for you. As owner you can do zero work, yet extract the wealth generated by hundreds of employees.

Owners essentially pay people less wealth than the wealth they generate. There is no circumstance where people will explicitly agree to such a transaction when given other choices.

It is fundamentally immoral and unfair to own wealth you did not produce or generate. This is not a question of empathy, it is a question of fundamental human rights.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#82
post #21

> It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, I'm glad he learned empathy in his old age; but keep in mind that he was ruthless, manipulative, exploitative, and caused a lot of long-term damage throughout most of his working life. That's the problem I have with the "rich" - our system (and lack of government…

> caused a lot of long-term damage

Examples?

> evil

My small business has competed against Microsoft since the 80s. While they are tough competitors, I don't see anything they've done as evil.

Check out the book "In Search of Stupidity" by Chapman.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#83
post #18

The biggest problem is the false belief that success is based on merit. This leads to classism. Classism is just as bad as a caste system, but the meritocracy myth makes it harder to take down.

I would say that merit is one of a few paths to success. Is it really a good idea to get rid of the "meritocracy myth"? Even if it's 100% true, there is something to the idea that if you put in effort and work hard, you have a better chance of being rewarded. The meritocracy myth encourages hard work. If we lived in a society where people truly believed that that hard work, intelligence and effort had no correlation…

You definitely have a better chance of being rewarded if you work hard and have talent etc. But its a better chance, not a direct correlation.

The belief is that even if you have bad luck, eventually your good work and talent will get you in the position you deserve. Even in the cases where that works out, we sort of overlook decades of toil in obscurity in poverty.

The reality is that the relative success of people in the first world is almost completely dependent upon the fact that they were born into the first world.

For example, some significant percent graduate from college and enter into office jobs, which then enables them to have a home, washing machine, car, wife/husband, etc. Owning these things and marrying does determine success in a real way. The percentage is significantly greater in some countries than others. Does that mean that some countries have significantly more talented, hard workers? Or is it because overall the other country is much less wealthy, there are fewer good-paying jobs, and fewer student aid options?

This is where you run into another related issue: racism. If you pick certain browner countries and compare them to whiter countries, a large percentage of people will just say "Yup, those brown people aren't as talented and don't work as hard".

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#84
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> buy back their own stock so they make themselves rich while screwing ordinary investors and employees and companies I'm not sure how this is valid reasoning... Aren't stocks "bought-back" on the public market? If so, then buybacks would push up the stock price, which would benefit arbitrary investors directly (those who were willing to sell at a slightly higher price) and all investors indirectly.

I'm not 100% sure this is what the GP was referring to, but a common (and totally legal!) technique to prop up a flat or trending downward company is to start a share buyback program. You take cash that you have no idea what to do with anyway, and rather than return it to investors through a dividend, you start buying back shares. That props up your EPS, since there are fewer shares on the market, and you continue to…

I hear again the notion that investors are too stupid to know what is going on. The institutional investors, the ones who manage funds, are the ones that move markets, and they know damm well what is going on, and the shares get priced accordingly.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#85
post #36

Capitalism works best when two parties have similar information, resources, etc. Cell phone contracts are a perfect example. They've had teams of lawyers, arbitration and everything thing else on their side and lobbyists to write the laws to fit them. I can sign it or leave it. I also remember democracy isn't two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. So I'm not saying socialism's the answer either. I think t…

Read Peter Thiel. The perfect capitalism of frictionless competition and complete transparency is the enemy of its own intent. In highly competitive and transparent markets, profits are driven asymptotically to zero. Groceries, gasoline, airline tickets... these are extremely low-margin industries. Capitalism succeeds only when capitalism fails - when monopolies (global or local) appear that permit high-friction (and…

I just wanted to point out that Peter Thiel is discussing his ideas in the context of creating a very successful company. He is not talking about what system is best for society in general - rather what is best for an individual business owner.

Generally in economic theory companies in perfectly competitive industries have zero "economic profit" which means they earn enough profit to compensate the owners for capital invested. Effectively the owners are getting fairly compensated for the risk of investing their capital.

In a monopoly the owner is getting compensated not based on risk of investment but rather how much can be extracted from the customers. This is clearly good for the owner and not so good for everyone else.

Creating a monopoly based on a superior product is a good thing for everyone since you are innovating and creating something that was not there before. You should be able to hold this monopoly if no one can effectively reproduce it. However, any kind of regulation to maintain your monopoly is likely bad for everyone except yourself. In theory, without regulation you would expect most monopolies to fall or have reduced power as other players come into the market.

I think Peter Thiel has a very good way of thinking about the motivation for innovation in a capitalistic market. However, outside of brand new innovations, monopolies are likely bad for a society as a whole.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#86
I grew up poor, made okay money when I started my development career, and now make more money than all of my friends from the business I started 5 years ago.

I am by no means rich, but I am comfortable. I also have a pretty flexible schedule and I bought a nice house a couple of years ago.

I've pretty much stopped telling people that I have a business because there is an automatic assumption that I am rich and either should pay more for something or don't understand what it's like to be poor.

I've seen so many friends that barely scrape by, but choose to spend tons of cash every month on booze, weed, entertainment, new electronics, concerts, and all sorts of other non-essentials.

I sacrificed all of this for years (I never get the latest and greatest phone and get the cheapest plan from Walmart), in exchange for a comfortable life now.

Should I now somehow feel bad about this? Frankly, I'm tired of the people that wasted so much of their own money through poor life choices telling me why I should be giving more of the money I earned to pay for their lifestyle.

With the attitudes I see online and in the media about anyone that has money, it's really not hard to see why the rich seem like they have lost any kind of empathy for the poor...I know I have.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#87
post #21

> It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, I'm glad he learned empathy in his old age; but keep in mind that he was ruthless, manipulative, exploitative, and caused a lot of long-term damage throughout most of his working life. That's the problem I have with the "rich" - our system (and lack of government…

> caused a lot of long-term damage Examples? > evil My small business has competed against Microsoft since the 80s. While they are tough competitors, I don't see anything they've done as evil. Check out the book "In Search of Stupidity" by Chapman.

> Examples?

Internet Explorer. .doc format. Viruses.

> evil

They abused their monopoly to sell crap software and destroy competitors. At least, that's what the courts say.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#88

If the poor end of the wealth gap are still better off than 90% of the rest of the world, why does the wealth gap matter? That was my thinking for quite a while. However, the one thing that happens here in the US is that the wealthy have more representation and power in the legal system. Be it federal or local, the systems tend to get slanted against the not-wealthy because the wealthy take over the communications ch…

The problem is if this trajectory is allowed to continue, what happens to your kids and grandkids?

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#89
post #36

Capitalism works best when two parties have similar information, resources, etc. Cell phone contracts are a perfect example. They've had teams of lawyers, arbitration and everything thing else on their side and lobbyists to write the laws to fit them. I can sign it or leave it. I also remember democracy isn't two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. So I'm not saying socialism's the answer either. I think t…

Read Peter Thiel. The perfect capitalism of frictionless competition and complete transparency is the enemy of its own intent. In highly competitive and transparent markets, profits are driven asymptotically to zero. Groceries, gasoline, airline tickets... these are extremely low-margin industries. Capitalism succeeds only when capitalism fails - when monopolies (global or local) appear that permit high-friction (and…

it works great for consumers, employees, society, just not a good investment.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#90
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read Peter Thiel. The perfect capitalism of frictionless competition and complete transparency is the enemy of its own intent. In highly competitive and transparent markets, profits are driven asymptotically to zero. Groceries, gasoline, airline tickets... these are extremely low-margin industries. Capitalism succeeds only when capitalism fails - when monopolies (global or local) appear that permit high-friction (and…

I just wanted to point out that Peter Thiel is discussing his ideas in the context of creating a very successful company. He is not talking about what system is best for society in general - rather what is best for an individual business owner. Generally in economic theory companies in perfectly competitive industries have zero "economic profit" which means they earn enough profit to compensate the owners for capital…

if you think of most of the unicorns they are held up by copyright. google, facebook, even say uber etc. if I can scrape their sites I could make a derivative possibly even better.
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