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Running 50km after 82h of fasting

blog.xavivives.com

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Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#81

Post by rglullis »

nicky0 wrote: post #65
rglullis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen people die running a half marathon. From the "Those who don't learn History are doomed to repeat it" department: the whole reason people "run a Marathon" is because of the legend of a Soldier, Pheidippides, running from Marathon to Athens and dying after announcing victory in battle. If people are aware of this basic information and still are stupid enough to run without any preparation, I'd say they woul…

Are you saying that the people who died ran without any preparation?

No, I am saying that the people who "run past their breaking point just for giggles" (to use parent's term) are acting so carelessly that I don't care if something fatal happens to them.

Call it "self experimentation" all you want, but the OP running a 50k while on 4-day fast is plain stupid. It would be by his own damn doing if he died or done any serious harm to his body.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#82

Post by omegaworks »

mmaunder wrote: post #80

I've played with ketosis. You can verify your body is in a state of ketosis using "keto sticks" that you pee on. They change color and prove that your body is outputting ketones. That's also what causes your breath to smell like something died (my wife's comment). One of the leading thinkers on this is Tim Noakes who has written some excellent literature on the subject and is a keen runner. He became famous for "Lore…

>I would also echo some other commenters here that Ketosis is IMHO not a healthy state and can have quite far reaching health consequences.

Are you a doctor? Are you qualified in any way to be giving health recommendations?

No? Parroting the crowd doesn't help people. Especially people with insulin sensitivities that could absolutely be helped by a low carbohydrate diet.[0]

0: [pdf link] http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/335/art%253A10.1186%...

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#83

Post by folli »

For a community of 'hackers' (which I assume should embrace trying out new things and questioning traditional values), the majority of these comments sound very negative and not constructive.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#84

Post by gherkin0 »

civilian wrote: post #63
gherkin0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. This guy seems like the type to latch onto weird fitness ideas, the weirder the better, without really understanding what he's doing. His last experiment on his blog was with some system to only sleep 2 hours a day split up into a bunch of naps. > Also why conflate fasting and ketogenics? Isn't fasting basically a ketogenic diet where you are your own food?

Idk, devil's advocate, polyphasic sleep schedule is definitely something to try if you're curious about things. There's a handful of notable people from history who used polyphasic sleep schedules because they felt that it gave them more energy and waking time each day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep At the very least I think we can get behind the idea of a post-lunch afternoon nap, which is a very li…

Oh, I totally agree. It's just, like most things, you can take it too far. Only sleeping 20 minutes every 4 hours for a total of 2 hours of sleep per day is too far in my book.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#85

Post by skrause »

mmaunder wrote: post #80

I've played with ketosis. You can verify your body is in a state of ketosis using "keto sticks" that you pee on. They change color and prove that your body is outputting ketones. That's also what causes your breath to smell like something died (my wife's comment). One of the leading thinkers on this is Tim Noakes who has written some excellent literature on the subject and is a keen runner. He became famous for "Lore…

> so there are some fairly radical changes in your body's chemical functioning as it goes into starvation and survival mode.

Ketosis is not a "starvation mode", it's just one of the normal ways your body provides energy. During most of human history people didn't have plenty of carbs available all day long, so ketosis was most likely the normal state and not an exception.

"Starvation mode" because of eating less is generally just a myth and an excuse for people why their diet failed.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#86

Post by acconrad »

Funny that this gets upvoted so high and a more reasonable article that was posted in the same day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10931349) did not.

I've done ketosis, high carb, and moderate carb, and the fact is that while ketosis can work for some, it can be damaging to others. I tried keto for a while and it raised my fasting blood glucose levels to pre-diabetic levels. As soon as I went back to a moderate carb intake, my blood glucose was back to near-ideal. Obviously you should take further tests (HbA1C) to be absolutely sure if you're at risk, but it's not all smiles and rainbows for keto, you really need to make sure your body can actually adapt properly to the changes that are going on in your body as a result of the diet that promotes keto.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#87

Post by omegaworks »

exelius wrote: post #8

While this may be possible, I would worry about the effects on your liver. Ketosis does put additional strain on the liver, and while it doesn't seem like the side effects of extended ketosis are dangerous, there simply aren't any studies on ultra-endurance exercise during ketosis. And while studies on extended exercise during ketosis would be a good thing, they should be performed by researchers and doctors who know…

>Ketosis does put additional strain on the liver

Do you know what you're talking about? Fructose metabolism and alcohol metabolism also occur in the liver.

Keto reverses non-alcoholic fatty liver disease http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10620-006-9433-5

Many tissues can use ketones directly as fuel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Uses_in_the_hear...

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#88

Post by terio »

acconrad wrote: post #86

Funny that this gets upvoted so high and a more reasonable article that was posted in the same day ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10931349 ) did not. I've done ketosis, high carb, and moderate carb, and the fact is that while ketosis can work for some, it can be damaging to others. I tried keto for a while and it raised my fasting blood glucose levels to pre-diabetic levels. As soon as I went back to a modera…

I've had a similar experience. I researched that and found that in those conditions having a fasting glucose that is higher than the "normal" range is not a problem, just an adaptation. I had HbA1C done several times and the results came back perfect.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#89

Post by madaxe_again »

mmaunder wrote: post #80

I've played with ketosis. You can verify your body is in a state of ketosis using "keto sticks" that you pee on. They change color and prove that your body is outputting ketones. That's also what causes your breath to smell like something died (my wife's comment). One of the leading thinkers on this is Tim Noakes who has written some excellent literature on the subject and is a keen runner. He became famous for "Lore…

So, I played with ketosis and lost. 7 years ago I weighed 260lbs, having converted a once fit and muscular physique into lard with the help of my desk and startup. I decided to do something about this, and to simultaneously run an experiment to determine my general metabolic rate and baseline nutritional requirements.

To do this, I stuck myself on a fixed daily 700kcal diet, ran 15km a day, and got on with life as usual. I measured blood sugar, weight, fat mass, resting pulse, b.p.

Needless to say, I lost weight, fast, and was down to 180 by the time I ended the experiment, four months later. 80% of the mass I lost was fat, 20% muscle, my sleep apnoea was cured, and I felt good about myself for the first time in years.

I also got some beautiful graphs out of it. By keeping the inputs all constant, I could see my weight shifting along a curve as my metabolic requirements shrank as I dropped mass, I could see blood pressure and glucose moving in curves beautifully correlated with my fat mass. To that end, everything went as planned.

About six months after this, I started being sick. I'd spend days puking and delirious, and would then be fine for months, or weeks - came and went at random. Several years of baffled doctors later, I diagnosed myself with gall stones, got an ultrasound, confirmed my hypothesis, and had my gall bladder removed last year. Turns out that having a prolonged low calorie diet pissed my duodenum and gall bladder off mightily, and they grew a huge cluster of stones in short order. I'm seemingly fine now, after five years of misery.

Long story short, you're not actually invincible, don't learn this the hard way like I did.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#90

Post by nswanberg »

acconrad wrote: post #86

Funny that this gets upvoted so high and a more reasonable article that was posted in the same day ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10931349 ) did not. I've done ketosis, high carb, and moderate carb, and the fact is that while ketosis can work for some, it can be damaging to others. I tried keto for a while and it raised my fasting blood glucose levels to pre-diabetic levels. As soon as I went back to a modera…

More people find articles discussing what is possible more interesting than a summary article. Xavi was interested in ketosis, read about the subject, saw that runners like Tim Olsen had done well on a paleo-type diet and wondered about long-distance running in ketosis, followed through on the experiment, and wrote it up. To me that is the ideal thing to post here.
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