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Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

theguardian.com

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Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#81

Post by Overtonwindow »

themartorana wrote: post #53
jamescun wrote: post #48

For me, wanting to buy is not about an investment. I want somewhere secure and stable to live. The "dead money" aspect of rent versus a mortgage is just a bonus. It must seem alien to most in the west the sheer lack of protection renters have in England (property law is devolved); it is based entirely in private contracts, and what law does exist is rarely if ever enforced. Just last week Parliament rejected an amend…

It does seem odd to me (in the US). Renting here is not without risk and slum lords and rising rents, but there is a minimum expectation of consumer protection, much in the same way there is with most transactions. Either way, if you care to live anywhere near a city, housing prices are astronomical. We make a decent living, my wife and I, but still don't have what it takes to buy a two bedroom apartment in one of th…

I just bought a house for the first time last year. The value of my house is already more than what I paid for it. At the moment, I'm spending less including all of my bills and I ever did on the apartment. Furthermore, in five years, I can dispense with mortgage insurance (a requirement for the mortgage) and lower that monthly payment even more. I say all of this because I challenge your assumption that you cannot afford a mortgage. My house was $215,000, and I only had to put down about $10,000 to buy. I understand that everyone's financial situation is different, but I encourage you to speak to a mortgage company and find out precisely what it would take to get your own home.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#82

Post by Overtonwindow »

rconti wrote: post #61
jamescun wrote: post #48

For me, wanting to buy is not about an investment. I want somewhere secure and stable to live. The "dead money" aspect of rent versus a mortgage is just a bonus. It must seem alien to most in the west the sheer lack of protection renters have in England (property law is devolved); it is based entirely in private contracts, and what law does exist is rarely if ever enforced. Just last week Parliament rejected an amend…

This makes it sounds classist -- almost as if the renting class don't deserve protections. I would have assumed renters in the US would be treated worse.

They are!!! Especially in the larger cities. In fact, in some ways I think landlords and apartment companies raise rents deliberately to push certain classes of people out. In the last apartment complex I live at before I purchased my house, there were numerous restrictions on how many people you could have over, how long a guest could stay at your apartment, even how long your car could take up a parking space. We were spied on, constantly monitored, and we were always under the threat of an exorbitant rent increase. It was not unheard of for someone to get a $300 Per month increase in the rent when they went to renegotiate their lease. This was an upper-class, "nice" complex. I can't imagine what it's like for low income people. Living in an apartment is awful, and you are absolutely at the whims of corporations and landlords.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#83

Post by Overtonwindow »

darkr wrote: post #68
jamescun wrote: post #48

For me, wanting to buy is not about an investment. I want somewhere secure and stable to live. The "dead money" aspect of rent versus a mortgage is just a bonus. It must seem alien to most in the west the sheer lack of protection renters have in England (property law is devolved); it is based entirely in private contracts, and what law does exist is rarely if ever enforced. Just last week Parliament rejected an amend…

This. I rented for nearly ten years, latterly/mostly in East London, moving house on average every 12 months. Had my fair share of shitty landlords. Me & my girlfriend had circumstance/luck to thank; in 2012 (just before prices started climbing skywards again) we managed to save/borrow/scrape enough money together to get a deposit on a nearly derelict Victorian terrace and have been slowly doing it up since then. It'…

That's your house, you disconnect the cable and turn the lights out ;-)

Well said btw. Right there with you.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#84

Post by Overtonwindow »

cthalupa wrote: post #73
themartorana wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem odd to me (in the US). Renting here is not without risk and slum lords and rising rents, but there is a minimum expectation of consumer protection, much in the same way there is with most transactions. Either way, if you care to live anywhere near a city, housing prices are astronomical. We make a decent living, my wife and I, but still don't have what it takes to buy a two bedroom apartment in one of th…

Honest question: Is your credit bad? Even adding in PMI, property taxes, a 30 year rate, etc, the mortgage of house should be about the same, and often less than the rent unless you just can't get a good rate. A landlord has to make money, including the costs of longterm upkeep, replacing things like the air conditioner, paying real estate agents their commission, etc. If you can't make a 20% down payment I've seen P…

I think the 20% number is a misnomer. It's a good number to have, but I think you can get away with less. I have good credit, not super great, but good. I have some student loan debt. I have some credit card debt. However I was still only required to put down $10,000 with an interest rate of 3% to get my home. For me, when I added up mortgage, interest, insurance, and basic bills, it was still less than living in An apartment.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#85

Post by psaintla »

branchless wrote: post #23
psaintla wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not a responsible adult until you recognize debt is a tool. You can use the tool well or poorly but it is just a tool.

And when private banks provide near-unlimited debt the total cost of the average mortgage will consume all income after paying for food/heating/fuel. And if we get more productive disposable income will go up and that will feed into land prices. All the rentier need do is wait. edit: would love to hear the counter to this from whomever downvoted me - it's a fact that with our system productivity improvements flow int…

I didn't down vote you but here is the flaw. Rent typically trends upward with property values which eats away at a tenants ability to save. This is particularly true in markets like NYC, SF, LDN and HK where people are paying over 50% of their paycheck to rent.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#86

Post by themartorana »

cthalupa wrote: post #73
themartorana wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem odd to me (in the US). Renting here is not without risk and slum lords and rising rents, but there is a minimum expectation of consumer protection, much in the same way there is with most transactions. Either way, if you care to live anywhere near a city, housing prices are astronomical. We make a decent living, my wife and I, but still don't have what it takes to buy a two bedroom apartment in one of th…

Honest question: Is your credit bad? Even adding in PMI, property taxes, a 30 year rate, etc, the mortgage of house should be about the same, and often less than the rent unless you just can't get a good rate. A landlord has to make money, including the costs of longterm upkeep, replacing things like the air conditioner, paying real estate agents their commission, etc. If you can't make a 20% down payment I've seen P…

Ha, no, my credit is stellar. But I live in a nice neighborhood of Philadelphia. My 1000 sq ft 2 br apartment costs $2300/m in rent. (I'm aware it's a lot cheaper in other neighborhoods, but I love living here.)

To buy my apartment (and this is just for the apples-to-apples comparison) would cost in the neighborhood of $485,000. If I put $97,000 down (about 20% to avoid PMI) I'm looking at around $2350 inclusive of taxes. However, there's HOA fees. Here they cover all (yes ALL) utilities, but they're $890/month for this apartment. Now I'm out $97,000 in liquid cash, my monthly payment is $3240 inclusive of HOA.

I can easily get the loan, but in the city, it's not always cheaper to buy.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#87

Post by grecy »

jacquesm wrote: post #10
grecy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant: http://i.imgur.com/eIM5o.jpg

The moral of that cartoon is that we should all become beggars I guess. It's a funny way to represent it, but there is one person missing from that cartoon. The person that refuses to go into debt, saves until they have the money to spend on whatever it is they want to buy. Another useful addition would be someone with a mortgage that they actually pay off on, their net worth would likely dwarf the net worth of the b…

> The person that refuses to go into debt, saves until they have the money to spend on whatever it is they want to buy

That's me!

> Another useful addition would be someone with a mortgage that they actually pay off on, their net worth would likely dwarf the net worth of the beggar

And they're so old their body has given up and they spend their days sitting in front of the TV, thinking about all the things they wish they did in their life.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#88

Post by kmonsen »

bphogan wrote: post #57
outside1234 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response to that should be: "you are not a responsible adult until you are debt free." That is actually one of the secrets to a lower stress longer lasting life IMO.

Responsible adults manage debt. In my opinion it's a sign of immaturity to exclude funding sources available to you to accomplish goals. If the goal is starting a business, borrowing money to do so helps you get to market. If you have employees working for you and you cannot make payroll because profits were poor as you start, borrowing money to make payroll keeps you afloat. On a personal level, buying a house might…

The tax rules also favors mortgage debt substantially.

Re: Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes?

#90

Post by cthalupa »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #84
cthalupa wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Is your credit bad? Even adding in PMI, property taxes, a 30 year rate, etc, the mortgage of house should be about the same, and often less than the rent unless you just can't get a good rate. A landlord has to make money, including the costs of longterm upkeep, replacing things like the air conditioner, paying real estate agents their commission, etc. If you can't make a 20% down payment I've seen P…

I think the 20% number is a misnomer. It's a good number to have, but I think you can get away with less. I have good credit, not super great, but good. I have some student loan debt. I have some credit card debt. However I was still only required to put down $10,000 with an interest rate of 3% to get my home. For me, when I added up mortgage, interest, insurance, and basic bills, it was still less than living in An…

20% is the number required to avoid having to pay PMI
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