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How bad are things?

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81–90 of 122 posts

Re: How bad are things?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you replied to, but here's my take on your confusions: > I'm unsure of what "privatizing public spaces for socialization" is supposed to mean, or why it would be bad. I think they were referring to the movement away from communal spaces and communally owned spaces, especially ones which contribute to socialization/enculturation. Things like parks, libraries, schools, which are for people and of people,…

Parks, libraries and schools are largely not communally-owned spaces, but government-owned. Crucial distinction. In fact, some of the best alternatives to the traditional classroom model (i.e. Montessori, Sudbury, democratic, etc.) tend to be privately run schools. As such, private schools are on the positive side here. Again, this mystical "community" is mostly an illusion. It's either private ownership or governmen…

> Parks, libraries and schools are largely not communally-owned spaces, but government-owned. Crucial distinction.

It's only a crucial distinction if you don't consider yourself part of your own municipality. For the rest of us, (local) government is an expression of communion.

> Many people rightfully may consider their extended families to be not worth interacting with

I'm not convinced about the "rightfully" part. Your extended family exists because of choices of your direct family; to denounce the extensions is to make your direct family subject to your approval. You're free to do so, but I don't think "right" is the qualifier I would use.

> Beauty standards are determined first societally, then by entrepreneurs.

Except that entrepreneurs don't idly sit on the sidelines while "society" forms its standards. Our social self-image is dominated by only a few corporations, which have a lot to gain from controlling that image.

> The profit motive is intrinsic to a world of uncertainty [..] It is wholly neutral.

Just as the military motive is intrinsic to a world of uncertainty, I guess. Is developing and deploying nuclear weapons wholly neutral too?

> Clearly these are unresolved issues on part of the consumer.

On the contrary, when the majority of consumers is led to the wrong choice (cue philosophical derailment about moral relativism), it becomes a systemic problem. Maybe it's time to stop relying on 400-year old dogma?

> This is the almost cliched refrain of every moral reformer.

Your post also reads as the most cliched refrain of every economic anarchist. Can you even name one truly free market?

Re: How bad are things?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you replied to, but here's my take on your confusions: > I'm unsure of what "privatizing public spaces for socialization" is supposed to mean, or why it would be bad. I think they were referring to the movement away from communal spaces and communally owned spaces, especially ones which contribute to socialization/enculturation. Things like parks, libraries, schools, which are for people and of people,…

Parks, libraries and schools are largely not communally-owned spaces, but government-owned. Crucial distinction. In fact, some of the best alternatives to the traditional classroom model (i.e. Montessori, Sudbury, democratic, etc.) tend to be privately run schools. As such, private schools are on the positive side here. Again, this mystical "community" is mostly an illusion. It's either private ownership or governmen…

I can see strawmen, reactiveness, ad hominem attacks in your post. Please take time to read and empathize with the people you respond to. This is not a place to win arguments with aggressive tone.

Re: How bad are things?

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sincerely no offense meant Thanks! Guess it depends. Once you see it working it is hard not to. As for the irrational part, my take is that once I believe in a almighty / close-to-almigthy God (close-to because of the free will part) everything falls in place. I don't argue about creationism or not etc, I accept science as very useful models and don't make a fuzz of it, I actually don't even think about because it i…

I was happier when I was religious. That's the main reason I've considered going back to it. Couldn't do it :(

I’ll tell you how “I” did it.

I was raised as a Christian, but when I was 18 I gave it up. It was a matter of conscience. I didn’t believe. As you said, I thought it was irrational.

But as it turned out, my rationality and extraordinary intelligence just gave me the ability to screw up my life that much more. I was miserable and empty, not because of my circumstances, but because of me. I sucked.

That changed when I turned my life over to Christ at age 29. I still sucked, but it wasn’t about me. I still suck even today at age 53. But it is absolutely OK, because I’m not trusting in myself. I’m trusting in Christ.

God’s grace did it. I didn’t do it. It was “easy” because I didn’t have anywhere else to go.

I hope you can get back to that place, littletimmy. I’m rooting for you. Let me know if you want to talk more.

Re: How bad are things?

#84
post #2

This is a great excerpt: -------------------------- This is part of why I get enraged whenever somebody on Tumblr says “People in Group X need to realize they have it really good”, or “You’re a Group X member, so stop pretending like you have real problems.” The town where I practice psychiatry is mostly white and mostly wealthy. That doesn’t save it. And whenever some online thinkpiece writer laughs about how good p…

I want to defend the "thinkpiece writers" a little bit. I agree that you can't judge someone because they're part of Group X. Its impossible to know what struggles a person goes through. But, at least a few of the thinkpiece writers I've seen are commenting on how Group X uses their privilege to discredit the struggles Group Y or Z has experienced because of Group X. Laughing "about how good people in Group X have it…

Scott (the author) is using "thinkpiece writers" a bit equivocably, I think, with the latter usage being his hobby horse of attacking left wing social justice activists.

His counterpoint to you, which I would say has some traction, would likely be that those thinkpiece writers are deploying constructs like "privilege" as a way to discredit the very real struggle of people in groups that don't fall under the accepted rubric of privileged and oppressed, for the very reason that their issues' existence is either ignored or defined out of the category of "systemic oppression."

Most everyone is "in favor of being empathic to everyone's humanity and not discrediting anyone's struggle," but as humans everyone seems to have a hard time putting that principle into practice.

Re: How bad are things?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it easy to go back to believing once you not are non-religious? I've only seen it going one way, and I find it really hard to go back to religion even if I want to (because of the whole "it's irrational" aspect, sincerely no offense meant). How did you do it?

>sincerely no offense meant Thanks! Guess it depends. Once you see it working it is hard not to. As for the irrational part, my take is that once I believe in a almighty / close-to-almigthy God (close-to because of the free will part) everything falls in place. I don't argue about creationism or not etc, I accept science as very useful models and don't make a fuzz of it, I actually don't even think about because it i…

> Anyway, why would you want to go back?

Like, curiosity? People used to think that God floats in clouds above flat Earth.

Wouldn't you like to understand how exactly the belief in supernatural can make people happier and whether the (hypothetical) actual existence of supernatural plays any role?

Re: How bad are things?

#86
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parks, libraries and schools are largely not communally-owned spaces, but government-owned. Crucial distinction. In fact, some of the best alternatives to the traditional classroom model (i.e. Montessori, Sudbury, democratic, etc.) tend to be privately run schools. As such, private schools are on the positive side here. Again, this mystical "community" is mostly an illusion. It's either private ownership or governmen…

> Parks, libraries and schools are largely not communally-owned spaces, but government-owned. Crucial distinction. It's only a crucial distinction if you don't consider yourself part of your own municipality. For the rest of us, (local) government is an expression of communion. > Many people rightfully may consider their extended families to be not worth interacting with I'm not convinced about the "rightfully" part.…

Even if you believe "local government is an expression of communion," that would not invalidate the fact that there are important distinctions, as a many political scientist and public choice theorist have outlined. You may well believe it to be a purely benevolent arrangement by and for the people, but that is very weak and ignores problems highlighted by James M. Buchanan, Gordon Tullock and many others.

I don't understand the logic of "Direct family made this decision at some point, therefore you are obligated to perpetually obligate it." The "rightfulness" comes from the fact that the extended family may in fact be harmful and detrimental to one's well-being if it is highly dysfunctional. It can happen.

Our social self-image is dominated by only a few corporations, which have a lot to gain from controlling that image.

The implications of this statement, even if true, are quite unfortunate. It would imply the public is that naive and susceptible, but that moreover they have absolutely no recourse. This is a plain falsehood, they can each reject various parts of consumer culture if they wish, just as I (and presumably you) are doing by abstaining from lots of activities. You may also organize boycotts or engage in activism.

Obviously, without knowing who these corporations are and examining how they emerged, this statement you've given me alone is of little use to deliberate, and mostly makes the public look gullible.

Just as the military motive is intrinsic to a world of uncertainty, I guess. Is developing and deploying nuclear weapons wholly neutral too?

Well, you jumped the shark on this one. Whether you define profits as the speculation in opportunities concerning undervaluation or overvaluation of production factors, or profits as the surplus value extracted from variable capital, or surplus at all, I can't tell how it is anything but neutral. A particular profit-seeker may not be, but profit in general is. Production-for-use is a classic socialist anthem, but in practice it means always operating at subsistence and having distribution be inefficient because of cutting yourself off from a price system. Only in a hypothetical final state of rest/general equilibrium that cannot exist will profits disappear and only interest be obtained.

On the contrary, when the majority of consumers is led to the wrong choice (cue philosophical derailment about moral relativism), it becomes a systemic problem. Maybe it's time to stop relying on 400-year old dogma?

Not really moral relativism, but more that you cannot do interpersonal comparisons of utility. Even if you leave that aside, it is genuinely difficult to say that a majority of consumers are making a wrong choice, if it may be that is what they intended by their own volition. I'm sure going to strip clubs in general would count by a many definition, but, ultimately you have to convincingly prove there is both a massive and predictable irrationality going on. Even when you do, you have to weigh in the costs-benefits of intervention over individual bargaining and Coasian solutions of transaction costs and property rights.

If mine is 400-year old dogma, yours must be much older.

Your post also reads as the most cliched refrain of every economic anarchist. Can you even name one truly free market?

That's not the point, nor am I an economic anarchist. You can't just handwave useful economic research in a pithy one-liner about market irrationality without proposing a consistent model that doesn't lead to outright analytical nihilism, and you absolutely cannot refrain from extending irrationality to all other institutions and examine the effects, over merely assuming the perfection of some form of government.

Re: How bad are things?

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on I'll bite :) What sorted it for you?

Christianity. It got me a head start[0] and I think I was lucky to start with friends who explained that forgiveness is just the start and that I was supposed to be living a new life. That said, like other believers here I don't usually mention it as it can effectively derail discussions. [0] I'd tried for a 2/3 years before admitting I couldn't do this on my own, -I was so impulsive I didn't recognize I was doing so…

Faith is extremely good for this.

I didn't want to kickstart the perennial HN argument about 12 step programs, but that's how I found mine.

I would add that I'm not exactly a Christian, although I find a lot of inspiration in the gospel and the writings of Christian thinkers -- so one doesn't have to go "all the way" and believe in life after death and miracles and stuff -- it's often enough to focus on forgiveness and compassion, and that there's something bigger and more important than you and your tiny problems. I've talked to astronomers, for example, who find great comfort in considering the complete insignificance of our lives against the majesty of the cosmos.

Re: How bad are things?

#88
> 3. Or maybe many of the people I know are in fact this unhappy, but they never tell anyone except their psychiatrist all of the pieces necessary to put their life story together.

4. Or maybe many of the people I know are in fact unhappy, but they never explicitly tell anyone and I'm not noticing the other obvious signs because admitting the existence of such would reveal my unhappiness and bring me some questions I wouldn't want to answer.

Re: How bad are things?

#89
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was happier when I was religious. That's the main reason I've considered going back to it. Couldn't do it :(

I’ll tell you how “I” did it. I was raised as a Christian, but when I was 18 I gave it up. It was a matter of conscience. I didn’t believe. As you said, I thought it was irrational. But as it turned out, my rationality and extraordinary intelligence just gave me the ability to screw up my life that much more. I was miserable and empty, not because of my circumstances, but because of me. I sucked. That changed when I…

> turned my life over to Christ

I think a lot of people miss that this is the essential part of religion: I suck at being happy, despite all of my rationality and intelligence, so let God do the driving.

It's very comforting.

I'll also add that for me faith didn't come from a single "burning bush" moment, it came from long, painstaking, often failing, effort.

Re: How bad are things?

#90
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of problems normal people have that are as bad as the ones addicts are having? I promise I am asking this question in good faith.

Here's a few off the top of my head: Remaining in dysfunctional relationships because they can't bear to be alone. Continuing to work a job which they're losing money on because its their identity. Crippling debt, and its associated stress, accrued paying for things they hope will make the happy. (In the US at least) medical bills. All of those could easily have equal, or even more, negative effects on someone's life…

A few more:

Worshiping beauty, and always feeling ugly as a result.

Worshiping their own intellect, and always feeling like a fraud.

Being crippled with self-doubt and skepticism.

Constant anger at the world for wrongs, real or imagined.

Being underemployed and hating oneself for it.

Really, there are as many variants and flavors as there are people.

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