The DNC data breach • Hacker News Board

Re: The DNC data breach

#81

Post by olefoo » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 7:06 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #68

olefoo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fresh account, commenting on a new, extremely controversial issue should probably disclose affiliations before getting too embroiled in arguing interpretations and facts.

...and if they don't have any affiliations?

It seems unlikely that someone so disconnected from society as to be completely uninvolved and unopinionated on the topic at hand would have created an account for the specific purpose of commenting on the story.

We are social creatures; we have a deep need to align ourselves with groups of others. And the evidence points to our having a deep need to argue as well.

Re: The DNC data breach

#82

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 7:38 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #28

smadge wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is pretty unreasonable. As you note, there is no technical reason to deny the Bernie campaign access to their data. The Bernie campaign has fully indicated they want and are willing to cooperate with a third party investigation into the data breach, which would require investigating both campaigns, the DNC, and NPG VAN. Given they are already willing to share everything they know about the incident, there…

There is no technical reason, but that doesn't mean there is no reason. Sanders campaign may have violated rules. The DNC has thrown them in jail without bail in hopes that it gets things resolved quickly. I have no problem with that. If the DNC drags this process out that would be a very different story.

It appears that the DNC violated rules by cutting off access in violation of the contract (until the Sanders campaign sued on that point, at which point a resolution was almost immediately reached.)

Re: The DNC data breach

#83

Post by occsceo » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 11:19 AM UTC

epaulson wrote: post #76

jeff_marshall wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you comment on this a bit? It's not obvious to me how open access to this data would be intrinsicly bad, but I suppose that relies on the assumption that it's equally available to all parties (which may not (definitely not?)) be the case. any pointers to the statuatory/regulatory guidelines would be appreciated.

Here's a good list: http://nationbuilder.com/voterdata

a good overview, yes. For example, NY says "Election purposes only", but fails to mention that each infraction is a misdemeanor. And, Ohio is wrong. Ohio is campaign/election use only, also with the misdemeanor kicker.

Re: The DNC data breach

#84

Post by occsceo » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 11:24 AM UTC

jeff_marshall wrote: post #74

occsceo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I define open as, "your campaign would have to register and be verified"...then it abides by the state/fed rules for these datasets. I can't just throw the data on github.

Can you comment on this a bit? It's not obvious to me how open access to this data would be intrinsicly bad, but I suppose that relies on the assumption that it's equally available to all parties (which may not (definitely not?)) be the case. any pointers to the statuatory/regulatory guidelines would be appreciated.

The first question I ask people when talking about this project is, "Do you know your voter information is public?" About 85% are shocked and in horror that this information is available. Outside of a campaign, it is hard to say if the public would support it.

I've chatted with a two different lawyers over here in Ohio...and both have advised strict security and election/campaign use only.

Re: The DNC data breach

#85

Post by morganvachon » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

mrgordon wrote: post #60

slg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no technical reason, but that doesn't mean there is no reason. Sanders campaign may have violated rules. The DNC has thrown them in jail without bail in hopes that it gets things resolved quickly. I have no problem with that. If the DNC drags this process out that would be a very different story.

There is a reason we don't normally throw people into jail without bail...

Actually we (in the U.S.) do, if the charges are serious enough or if the suspect is a flight risk. It varies by jurisdiction, but in general misdemeanor charges have pre-set bonds, and usually felony warrants will have a bond set by the judge at the time the warrant is issued, though for serious charges the warrant may be issued with no bond set.

Re: The DNC data breach

#86

Post by occsceo » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

uxp wrote: post #67

coderjames wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting, thanks for adding that explanation for us not in the space. What I'm surprised about is that the campaigns are willing to let this data be stored in the cloud on shared systems. I would have expected all proprietary data to be stored locally by each campaign on private in-house servers, probably with periodic data dumps of updates from the data provider.

Why? Why put forth the expense of obtaining (purchase or rent) hardware and staff to maintain that hardware? Additionally, why put forth the time and expense to write or compose a CRM-like software solution that integrates with voter data, what sounds like a dialer/call center, and "big data" tools (Spark, Hadoop, Tableau, SSIS/SSRS) that probably needs a good 6 months lead time before the candidate even announces a…

> "big data" tools (Spark, Hadoop, Tableau, SSIS/SSRS)

whoa man...those tech's aren't even in play. lol. It's MSSQL and Oracle, with .net web apps [usually] running on top.

building on hadoop/spark is way outside their wheelhouse.

Re: The DNC data breach

#87

Post by occsceo » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

coderjames wrote: post #39

sethbannon wrote: post #16

For those that are not familiar with the space, campaigns typically use voter contact software to record the results of the conversations they have with potential voters on the phones, at the doors, and over the Internet. In this case, the voter contact software that both the Hillary and Sanders campaigns were using, NGP VAN, had a bug which allowed both campaigns to access each other's private, proprietary data (in…

That's interesting, thanks for adding that explanation for us not in the space. What I'm surprised about is that the campaigns are willing to let this data be stored in the cloud on shared systems. I would have expected all proprietary data to be stored locally by each campaign on private in-house servers, probably with periodic data dumps of updates from the data provider.

> is that the campaigns are willing to let this data be stored in the cloud

Not the campaigns...the parties.

Re: The DNC data breach

#88

Post by mrgordon » Wed, Dec 30, 2015, 8:10 PM UTC

morganvachon wrote: post #85

mrgordon wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason we don't normally throw people into jail without bail...

Actually we (in the U.S.) do, if the charges are serious enough or if the suspect is a flight risk. It varies by jurisdiction, but in general misdemeanor charges have pre-set bonds, and usually felony warrants will have a bond set by the judge at the time the warrant is issued, though for serious charges the warrant may be issued with no bond set.

Thats why I said "normally"