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Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

nature.com

81–90 of 144 posts

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#81

I am having an epiphany. Maybe this "Alzheimer protein" is supposed to be the brain's defenses to something much worse. Maybe this protein is a "reaction" similar to skin rashes when it absorbs poison ivy's urisol. If Alzheimer was simply a deficiency of nutrients, I wouldn't think this way, but if it really is a protein that "can be cleared", why did it get there in the first place?

>Maybe this "Alzheimer protein" is supposed to be the brain's defenses to something much worse.

What could possibly be worse? What are we seeing from non-Alzheimer sufferers that's so terrible? I don't think there's any evidence here that there's some benefit to it. Its a horrible disease.

My dad went from occasional forgetfulness to completely falling apart in less than two years. He would get lost routinely, couldn't remember names, had no idea what time or day it was, and developed sundown syndrome where once 6pm hit he completely went mad. He would be angry at nothing and scream at the mirror. He would rant and ramble about his past or strange conspiracy theories. Towards the end, he lived in some weird nightmarish state almost all the time. Sundown syndrome became his norm. He died of cancer before it progressed past that point, but man, this disease is not just losing memories. It pretty much destroys your brain and acute dementia has a link with immune system dysfunction, so it eventually kills you, usually by pneumonia.

I doubt there's any benefit. Evolution isn't this wonderful process. Its a lot of crap thrown at the wall and enjoying the stuff that works and dealing with what doesn't. There's no mastermind or clockmaker here. There are a lot of things that go wrong with human health that has no benefit.

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

provides no proven benefit in humans I know there's very good reason to be wary of mouse models, but in cases (as this appears to be) where the physiological mechanism of disease is both (a) understood and (b) the same from mouse to human, a little less skepticism may be warranted.

I think the point has more to do with side-effects than efficacy. Your argument misses this point entirely.

Not really. Side-effects aren't to be observed in a vacuum.

We should be far more concerned about side-effects of a drug intended to treat acne or erectile dysfunction than for drugs targeting life destroyers such as cancer and Alzheimer's.

At some threshold of disease viciousness, society (and the FDA) should relax substantially on the risk-aversion, because the patient is already facing the worst-case scenario.

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point has more to do with side-effects than efficacy. Your argument misses this point entirely.

Not really. Side-effects aren't to be observed in a vacuum. We should be far more concerned about side-effects of a drug intended to treat acne or erectile dysfunction than for drugs targeting life destroyers such as cancer and Alzheimer's. At some threshold of disease viciousness, society (and the FDA) should relax substantially on the risk-aversion, because the patient is already facing the worst-case scenario.

>At some threshold of disease viciousness, society (and the FDA) should relax substantially on the risk-aversion, because the patient is already facing the worst-case scenario.

This is a fair point, but the rest... well ... still manages to miss the above argument. Side-effects aren't observed in a vacuum, but efficacy is still observed in laboratory conditions, so we really can't comment on whether (or how) this molecule affects other systems.

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me that people are willing to experiment with an unapproved chemical that provides no proven benefit in humans, yet aren't willing to use human-proven therapies with known benefits such as statins.

If I was slowly losing my mind, I'd even try experimental drugs that came with a 20% chance of sudden death. There's not much worse than having your mind die while your body is still alive.

But perhaps it has other nasty side effects, maybe another 20% to get instant dementia.

Just to pick another unrelated chemical example that is well known, 30ml of methanol will kill you but 10ml will make you permanently blind.

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#85
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not for a sore knee. Is there anything more unapproved than an irreversible disease that destroys your mind in the space of a few years? It's not like cancer, from which you might be cured, or at least with which you can have a meaningful life until your eventual death. It is a slow motion process of erasure that is well on its way at the moment of the first diagnosis. Taking the wrong medicine could short…

Taking chemicals which haven't been made for human consumption and haven't been tested thoroughly could render you dead much faster than that.

Yes, obviously. But what about new chemicals where testing has been done, without significant observed damage? Is that considered safe after enough observations, or would a single fatality skew your risk-minimizing behavior?

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#86
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not for a sore knee. Is there anything more unapproved than an irreversible disease that destroys your mind in the space of a few years? It's not like cancer, from which you might be cured, or at least with which you can have a meaningful life until your eventual death. It is a slow motion process of erasure that is well on its way at the moment of the first diagnosis. Taking the wrong medicine could short…

Taking chemicals which haven't been made for human consumption and haven't been tested thoroughly could render you dead much faster than that.

Dead can to be honest be better than full blown Alzheimer's.

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#87

This is heartening news; if not a cure, at least it suggests a promising avenue for future research into this terrible condition. This LiveScience[1] article is an easily read summary that also mentions a critique of the approach. Given the unfortunate history[2][3] of falsified Korean scientific research, it would be prudent to withhold judgment until these results have been reproduced in other labs around the world…

Really? You are going to make a blanket statement about the entire Korean research community's work? [1][2][3][4][5][....]

[1] http://www.dailyprogress.com/lifestyles/health/former-vcu-ca...

[2] http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/probe-reveals-fo...

[3] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/03/national/science...

[4] http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/toronto-researchers-alleged-to-...

[5] http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-09/17/c_134632381.htm

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#88
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me that people are willing to experiment with an unapproved chemical that provides no proven benefit in humans, yet aren't willing to use human-proven therapies with known benefits such as statins.

Many people are quite cynical about Big Pharma

Yes, those people don't experiment with dangerous chemicals, instead they happily give their dollars to big placebo!

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#89
post #87

This is heartening news; if not a cure, at least it suggests a promising avenue for future research into this terrible condition. This LiveScience[1] article is an easily read summary that also mentions a critique of the approach. Given the unfortunate history[2][3] of falsified Korean scientific research, it would be prudent to withhold judgment until these results have been reproduced in other labs around the world…

Really? You are going to make a blanket statement about the entire Korean research community's work? [1][2][3][4][5][....] [1] http://www.dailyprogress.com/lifestyles/health/former-vcu-ca... [2] http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/probe-reveals-fo... [3] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/03/national/science... [4] http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/toronto-researchers-alleged-to-... [5] http://news.xinhuanet…

This is one of the realities of scientific publishing. Certain countries (like China and Korea) churn or large quantities of falsified research.

Re: Chemical clears Alzheimer's protein and restores memory in mice

#90

This is heartening news; if not a cure, at least it suggests a promising avenue for future research into this terrible condition. This LiveScience[1] article is an easily read summary that also mentions a critique of the approach. Given the unfortunate history[2][3] of falsified Korean scientific research, it would be prudent to withhold judgment until these results have been reproduced in other labs around the world…

Wow, talk about cherry-picking. And those both resulted in jail time. How about the "unfortunate history" of falsified research in other countries?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#Notable_...

Do you feel the same way about US scientific research?

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