Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#81

Post by zappo2938 » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

robalfonso wrote: post #60

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #34

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…

Can I offer a different point of view? I think that the situation you were in would have benefitted from any effort to learn the other aspects of the business. Going to b-school to do so was just one path. Alternatively you could have sought out someone in the business and asked them for help on learning the other part of the business. Its not universal but I've never met someone who wouldn't help me learn the busine…

There are different types of learning. It can be easily said everything a person learns in school can just be learned by reading a book outside of school. However, some people learn better by lecture and other people by simply reading on their own.

There was also a movement in the 90s with secondary education where teachers tried multidisciplinary education -- I don't follow these things so it might still be a thing now. The idea is students are more engaged and retain information when instead of being taught math and history separately, they are taught the history of Fibonacci as the same time they are taught about Western Civ and the dark ages of math in science in Europe. Another example is integrating metal shop with physics no becoming energy shop.

What OP has discovered is that what might have been boring and inconsequential to his life now has become important to the task at hand.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#82

Post by landonshoop » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:06 PM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #70

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #34

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…

I would be interested to hear from you, and anybody else with similar experience, what were some of the most valuable courses you took. That is, for someone with no interest in pursuing an MBA but with the opportunity to take a course or two, what are the must-haves?

Finance was a big one for me.

Understanding the fundamental concepts of, for instance, CAPM and free cash flow have been useful in my career. You also pick up some useful personal investing lessons.

In general, this class gives you insights into the decisions a CFO (and supporting team) is faced with -- e.g. is it better to invest in tech A or tech B or neither?

In my own personal career, I've had to make a case to Finance in order to build out a program and being able to talk-the-talk was helpful.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#83

Post by gohrt » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:11 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #57

I'm always skeptical about stuff like this. Sandberg's springboard into her career was two-fold: working at McKinsey after HBS, and working under Larry Summers, who was her thesis advisor at Harvard UG. She went to Google as a VP after her stint in government. There is a huge "getting your foot in the door" advantage to that credential. I can totally believe she didn't use much of what she learned at HBS in what she…

By far the most important thing she learned at HBS was the phone numbers of her classmates.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#84

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

landonshoop wrote: post #61

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #34

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…

Agreed. To add to your point: Most entrepreneurs need to spend a significant amount of time thinking about non-tech related objectives (e.g. sales, pricing, marketing, etc). Sure -- there are tons of publications out there teaching a technical entrepreneur the fundamentals of marketing and sales, but it is always specific to the author's/interviewee's own experience which happens to be unlike all others. Or, and perh…

[deleted]

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#85

Post by eecks » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:14 PM UTC

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #34

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…

That's really interesting. I am like you were. I am a developer but all the decisions are done above my head. I don't feel like I don't understand the whys and I do have my own questions to why things were done the way they were and I have opinions on improvements. The problem is that that is not my job. The company wants business people to plan and developers to create - because that makes sense. Everyone's time is used for their strengths.

After you did your MBA, did you take up new responsibilities in work? Did you get compensated for being a more valuable member of the team?

Do you think it would be worthwhile for someone in my position to do an MBA considering I don't feel like you did?

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#86

Post by zeeshanm » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #34

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…

That all sounds good. But why not just grab a book and read. I recently read "Crossing the Chasm," and it was completely eye opening as I was able to reflect on mistakes I made in terms of early market development when I "started out."

To each his own, I guess. Perhaps I just don't like to glorify schools of any sort.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#87

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:17 PM UTC

swingbridge wrote: post #22

Honestly the MBA has always mostly been an advanced degree for people who didn't get an advanced degree in a real subject. Lets people tick the 'grad school' box. The real world value has always been quite questionable and yes I'd agree here that in tech it's mostly useless, if not actually even a disadvantage. For what's it's worth nearly all the excellent executives I've met over the years didn't have an MBA and ne…

Unless you're considering the opportunity cost of doing an MBA vs. learning a new technical skill for 2 years, I'm not sure how extra education could ever be a disadvantage. Sure, in tech (specifically in Silicon Valley), the value of the degree is pretty much ignored. I'd probably get the same opportunities out here with or without mine on my resume. I can't see it ever being a detriment though. Are you telling me that there are companies who will interview me, be all set to send me an offer, then find out I have an MBA and say "Oops, no-hire! Looks like you're a moron!"

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#88

Post by DannoHung » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:21 PM UTC

Corporations are legal constructs that require specific domain knowledge to correctly administer and develop. MBAs are ostensibly targeted at that (in the same way Computer Science degrees are ostensibly targeted at teaching you domain knowledge to think and reason about the specific mathematics that underlie computers and software).

What you get out of them and their utility probably is very contextual in the same way any degree is.

My suspicion is that for many roles and at many times in a technology business, the utility is low, but that for some roles at some times, it is quite high.

Ultimately, the thing that's might be funky is that if you hire someone for their expertise in domains pertinent to MBAs, you are putting them very close to having control of the legal construct of your business. Like a sysadmin, you need to place a lot of trust in them to ensure they are doing their job correctly if you don't have the domain knowledge to provide careful oversight.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#89

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:21 PM UTC

> Sandberg suggested a career in tech might not even be necessary to catch Facebook’s attention. “We don't look for a specific background or skill-set when we make hiring decisions,” she wrote. “As my friend and Instagram COO Marne Levine says, we hire athletes and cross-train them.”

From a randomly selected job posting on Facebook's web site:

  Requirements

  B.S. or M.S. Computer Science or related field
  Experience building high-performance, large-scale server applications and reliable software
  Expert knowledge developing and debugging in C++
  End-to-end experience in online ad serving and background in online advertising/auction theory strongly preferred
  Knowledge of Perl, PHP, or Python a plus
  Knowledge of Hadoop/MapReduce a plus

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#90

Post by eitally » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 4:24 PM UTC

I've never worked with MBAs before, in all my tech career, which included stints as a programmer and then a long period as a manager/director where I was in a much more business-oriented role. I always had a preconception that "MBA" essentially meant "management consultant", those high-priced guys who were paid to support bad news the CEO didn't want to seem came from himself. Restructuring advisement is certainly a valid role business consultants fulfill, but it's definitely not the only one, or even one of the more common ones.

I joined Google this summer and I have 2 ex-consultant MBAs in the team I'm managing, along with a third employee who is ex-BCG-but-no-MBA. They are awesome. They freaking rock at analysis, and are highly skilled at asking good & pointed questions to help nail down business opportunities & good/bad ideas. Two of them have technical BSes (EE & CS) and are fantastic PMs: well organized, analytical, strong communicators, outgoing, and perhaps most importantly, they know when they're weak in an area and how to recruit complimentary team members.

This by no means should be considered advice that everyone needs an MBA, that all MBAs are equal, that all tech PMs need an MBA, or even that all Google MBAs are good at their jobs, but MINE ARE, and they'd be much less proficient if they hadn't spent that extra two years in business school (along with tech internships both years). Just like everything else, people need to set goals and work appropriately to achieve them. For some individuals this will suggest an MBA; for many others, not so much.

Honestly, the biggest piece of business school advice I'd offer anyone is that if you can't get into or afford a top tier school, don't bother paying a school at all. Just try to DIY it the best you can. The gap between what students get out of the tier 1 programs and everything else (with a few notable exceptions) is immense.

I'm not counting exec MBA programs at all. They're specifically targeted at people who are already execs and just look to amp up certain skills (M&A, international development, etc).