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Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

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Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#81

Post by sdm »

msh wrote: post #71
bjt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Brazilian company with a presence in the US could absolutely be subject to a US court order without any court in Brazil needing to be involved. You don't get to dodge the laws of a country you're operating in just because your HQ is in some other country.

But whatsapp don't have a business presence in Brazil. Just because they have users there is not the same as a business presence.

Does whatsapp make money from users in Brazil? Then yes, it has a business presence in Brazil.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#82

Post by hhandoko »

msh wrote: post #71
bjt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Brazilian company with a presence in the US could absolutely be subject to a US court order without any court in Brazil needing to be involved. You don't get to dodge the laws of a country you're operating in just because your HQ is in some other country.

But whatsapp don't have a business presence in Brazil. Just because they have users there is not the same as a business presence.

Good point.

I suppose this could be a reason why they require a third party (the telcos) to block access to WhatsApp, as they are operating under Brazilian law.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#83

Post by dogma1138 »

morgante wrote: post #69
_delirium wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contempt of court in the U.S. escalates considerably beyond fines if the company doesn't start complying quickly. The court can jail the company's officers, issue an injunction forcing them to stop doing business, instruct customs to blockade them at the U.S. border (in the case of companies selling physical goods), and a range of other things.

Yes, that's all true. But they don't compel third parties to block the company's app.

That's when it's a US company if it's foreign it will end up on the US trade department sanction list which will blacklist them world wide not only in the US and will prevent any entity which operates in the US from doing any sort of business with them.

There is nothing that a Brazilian judge can do to whatsapp other than to harm them financially cutting off 100m users even in a developing market sends a clear sign.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#84

Post by Daishiman »

msh wrote: post #71
bjt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Brazilian company with a presence in the US could absolutely be subject to a US court order without any court in Brazil needing to be involved. You don't get to dodge the laws of a country you're operating in just because your HQ is in some other country.

But whatsapp don't have a business presence in Brazil. Just because they have users there is not the same as a business presence.

They have paid users.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#85

Post by outworlder »

To put this in perspective, it would be as if a single judge in the US managed to shutdown all SMS for 48 hours, in the whole country. ()

Because, you see, SMS is too expensive in Brazil. So people resort to WhatsApp instead.

() It doesn't matter if SMS is not controlled by a single company, the block has to be enforced by all internet and cellphone operators in the entire country.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#87

Post by msh »

sdm wrote: post #81
msh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But whatsapp don't have a business presence in Brazil. Just because they have users there is not the same as a business presence.

Does whatsapp make money from users in Brazil? Then yes, it has a business presence in Brazil.

No, that's not the international legal definition for a business presence.

My point is that Brazil should follow legal procedures and have a American judge issue a supena. That's what a MLAT is for.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#88

Post by [deleted] »

DannyBee wrote: post #74
cthalupa wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a retaliation, to show that WhatsApp has to comply with Brazilian local laws when storing data from Brazilians using the service in Brazil, they banned WhatsApp for 48 hrs. Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do…

"Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. " They don't. They only have to comply if they don't want to be blocked. "If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do I have any duty to comply with said country requesting the identity and viewing history of citizens li…

[deleted]

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#89

Post by [deleted] »

DannyBee wrote: post #74
cthalupa wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a retaliation, to show that WhatsApp has to comply with Brazilian local laws when storing data from Brazilians using the service in Brazil, they banned WhatsApp for 48 hrs. Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do…

"Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. " They don't. They only have to comply if they don't want to be blocked. "If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do I have any duty to comply with said country requesting the identity and viewing history of citizens li…

[deleted]

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#90

Post by dogma1138 »

DannyBee wrote: post #74
cthalupa wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a retaliation, to show that WhatsApp has to comply with Brazilian local laws when storing data from Brazilians using the service in Brazil, they banned WhatsApp for 48 hrs. Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do…

"Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. " They don't. They only have to comply if they don't want to be blocked. "If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do I have any duty to comply with said country requesting the identity and viewing history of citizens li…

>If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my sit

Actually you have in most cases as trade agreements and various treaties usually provide the framework to extend laws and regulations between countries.

Gambling sites for example wether they are run from the UK, Malta or CAR explicitly block US users due to US laws which prevent online gambling.

If you are running a gambling site even in some 3rd world non extradition country if you do not respect the UIGEA you'll be sanctioned and an arrest warrant will be issued faster than you can say poker stars.

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