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ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

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Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#81
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody cares about computers anymore (thanks smartphones, tablets!), and so Windows will go down the drain eventually Not holding my breath for that.

Desktop use is shrinking compared to alternatives --- especially mobile. In developing countries, many people use smartphones as their only form of access to the internet. People aren't saying that desktops etc are going to disappear , but that the cash cow in the next decade is probably going to have a much smaller form factor and a different OS from your traditional desktop.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, thank you.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#82

I've always been strangely fascinated by this project. I don't understand it. I appreciate the technical skill involved, and the amount of effort expended. But, I can't imagine working on it. From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front. It has a very strong application ecosystem, but technically it's unpleasant to work on (for me). So, given that, if there's somet…

> From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front.

The core architecture of Windows NT is actually pretty nice. Its chief architect, Dave Cutler, was one of the lead developers of VMS. I think Windows NT and VMS do IO much better than Unix/Linux - making the basic primitives asynchronous, and layering synchronous IO on top, instead of asynchronous IO being a fragile afterthought. However, Microsoft has (no doubt forced by backward compatibility) layered a lot of less than pleasant legacy cruft on top of this nice core.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#83
post #73
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of Qt, Gtk, and all the others, Windows just has Win32 No, Windows has Qt, Gtk and all the others, too. Virtually any regular user Windows install has 2-5 Qt apps on it. And Windows has been infamous for apps reinventing standard UI elements with skinned monstrosities.

It's been about 5 years since I was a regular Windows user, but I can't think of a single Qt app I used on a regular basis. Care to name some examples?

EA's Origin and TeamSpeak (-> most PC gamers), VLC (-> most young tech-savvy media consumers), various device bundled software like the stuff that comes with TomTom GPS, the LightScribe control panel, ... it just accumulates. Germany's official tax app is Qt so that's a whole country right there. Many HN users might use VirtualBox which is Qt. The new Radeon Control Panel is Qt, too, so anyone who buys an AMD graphics card and installs the drivers. Many slightly geeky users use qBitorrent ever since uTorrent turned bad. Lots of one-off mini apps such as game launchers and settings apps are often Qt. And lots of weird random stuff people use for specific interests ... knitting pattern software, kids edutainment apps, language course CD apps, scientific citation managers, IRC clients and other messengers (Telegram desktop is Qt), ...

This is before you get into pro apps like Mathematica or Maya (and half of Autodesk's other apps and Nuke and so on). Or not-pro but widely used and semigeeky stuff like Avidemux. Or Valve's video making tool for Source engine video games like TF2 used by game YouTubers and esports people.

Qt is a pretty common way to write GUI apps for Windows. Just go to any regularly used Windows PC with a 20-something user and I almost guarantee you will find a few qtcore DLLs.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#84

I've always been strangely fascinated by this project. I don't understand it. I appreciate the technical skill involved, and the amount of effort expended. But, I can't imagine working on it. From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front. It has a very strong application ecosystem, but technically it's unpleasant to work on (for me). So, given that, if there's somet…

Below are the issues I face with Linux:

- Windows has better accessibility support. (Windows 10 has messed some of it up.)

- When there are issues, it is easy to find help with Windows than for Linux. Unless it is about a BSOD which are rare now.

- While there are many claims that Linux does not need a firewall, I do not agree. Setting up a firewall on Linux is a lot more challenging (newbie here) than on Windows. For example, on Windows, I can easily control which application can access the Internet using some paid firewall product.

- Finding replacement for Windows applications on Linux is a troublesome, especially given that most of them would have minor unadvertized issues like accessibility or some counter-intuitive thing with zero documentation.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#85
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft already kinda went open source, unintentionally :) http://www.opennt.net/ interesting thread documenting start of OpenNT project http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=33250 from broken code base that would not compile to booting ~Windows 2003 compiled from source.

Avast gives me a Win32Evo Trojan warning when downloading NT 4.5 binary or ISO images. Is it a false positive or did they accidentally introduce a Trojan into the code? Anyway Avast won't let me download NT 4.5 due to a Trojan warning. So I can't test it out unless I disabled my AV. Edit: Why the downvote, scan it with Avast yourself if you don't believe me. I refuse to use it unless it is verified to not have a Troj…

They do this for "cracks" and "warez". I have a remote desktop licensing reset program and it flags it as a virus when it isn't.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#86
post #83
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been about 5 years since I was a regular Windows user, but I can't think of a single Qt app I used on a regular basis. Care to name some examples?

EA's Origin and TeamSpeak (-> most PC gamers), VLC (-> most young tech-savvy media consumers), various device bundled software like the stuff that comes with TomTom GPS, the LightScribe control panel, ... it just accumulates. Germany's official tax app is Qt so that's a whole country right there. Many HN users might use VirtualBox which is Qt. The new Radeon Control Panel is Qt, too, so anyone who buys an AMD graphic…

Common is an exaggeration. You mentioned a handful of examples, most of which are either programmer/geek intended or niche (the LightScribe control panel? German's official tax app? language course CD apps? Virtualbox? scientific citation managers, etc?)...

The fact is a user can go for years without ever using one. And in the tens of millions of apps available for Windows, QT based ones make for less than 1/1000...

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#87
post #80
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moore's Law is slowing down, and PCs and laptops are having longer effective lifetimes. I've got an eight year old laptop that's still serviceable - actually runs better with Windows 10 than it did with the Vista that came on it. It's not obsolescence every eighteen months any more. That's where phones are now. In a few years, they'll mature, and it'll be how VR goggles or the next gewgaw are killing the PC. Meanwhil…

Which is exactly the point I (the parent comment of this thread) was trying to make: The desktop/laptop (which I described using the term computer in my original post) market is declining. Not because they aren't used anymore, but because I don't need to replace them anymore.

You do realize that that's a totally different argument that "nobody cares about computers anymore".

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#88
post #86
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EA's Origin and TeamSpeak (-> most PC gamers), VLC (-> most young tech-savvy media consumers), various device bundled software like the stuff that comes with TomTom GPS, the LightScribe control panel, ... it just accumulates. Germany's official tax app is Qt so that's a whole country right there. Many HN users might use VirtualBox which is Qt. The new Radeon Control Panel is Qt, too, so anyone who buys an AMD graphic…

Common is an exaggeration. You mentioned a handful of examples, most of which are either programmer/geek intended or niche (the LightScribe control panel? German's official tax app? language course CD apps? Virtualbox? scientific citation managers, etc?)... The fact is a user can go for years without ever using one. And in the tens of millions of apps available for Windows, QT based ones make for less than 1/1000...

I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here. My original assertion was that most Windows PCs used by regular consumers have copies of Qt on them, and I stand by that. How that happens is not hard to see across the examples I gave: Widely deployed hardware support software, widely used content client software, auxiliary roles in widely used entertainment software, software required by law to use by a decently-sized country population, software used in content creation of various kinds, software used by students and in the course of common hobbies ...

Yeah, a user can conceivably go for years without using one. By far most won't though, or will have Qt apps installed they don't use frequently.

Qt is an 800k developer ecosystem[1] -- do you think they all work on Wireshark? Most of them write Windows apps.

1 = https://youtu.be/sa2gS9GKG9Y

Edit: windows.com seems quite taken as well: https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2011/03/15/10-qt-use-cases...

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#89
post #86
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EA's Origin and TeamSpeak (-> most PC gamers), VLC (-> most young tech-savvy media consumers), various device bundled software like the stuff that comes with TomTom GPS, the LightScribe control panel, ... it just accumulates. Germany's official tax app is Qt so that's a whole country right there. Many HN users might use VirtualBox which is Qt. The new Radeon Control Panel is Qt, too, so anyone who buys an AMD graphic…

Common is an exaggeration. You mentioned a handful of examples, most of which are either programmer/geek intended or niche (the LightScribe control panel? German's official tax app? language course CD apps? Virtualbox? scientific citation managers, etc?)... The fact is a user can go for years without ever using one. And in the tens of millions of apps available for Windows, QT based ones make for less than 1/1000...

[deleted]

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#90
post #84

I've always been strangely fascinated by this project. I don't understand it. I appreciate the technical skill involved, and the amount of effort expended. But, I can't imagine working on it. From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front. It has a very strong application ecosystem, but technically it's unpleasant to work on (for me). So, given that, if there's somet…

Below are the issues I face with Linux: - Windows has better accessibility support. (Windows 10 has messed some of it up.) - When there are issues, it is easy to find help with Windows than for Linux. Unless it is about a BSOD which are rare now. - While there are many claims that Linux does not need a firewall, I do not agree. Setting up a firewall on Linux is a lot more challenging (newbie here) than on Windows. Fo…

Accessibility is an excellent reason to choose Windows, probably sufficient even on its own, if you need an accessible system. Accessibility is hard, and requires a ton of resources to do well...Microsoft has been willing and able to expend those resources. I do know users who require assistive technologies to work who use Linux, but it's rare and they're extremely technically savvy themselves (usually software developers).

As for finding help, I usually find it's the opposite, or at least the kind of help I find for Windows is often very cargo cultish. e.g. "I did these fifteen mysterious steps, and my problem when away. I think that's what fixed it." I feel much more in command of the system with Linux. This is, admittedly, at least as much my own depth of knowledge. I've been building products for Linux for two decades, including kernel development, patching system libraries and services, etc. I actually understand Linux systems on a pretty deep level; I don't understand Windows systems, beyond the GUI.

Firewall? Meh. The default firewall on a Fedora system is fine. There are tons of free tools for managing the iptables firewall (and firewalld simplifies management at the expense of flexibility). I never use a UI, though, as it's pretty easy to use once you understand the basic concepts. But, a firewall isn't really the most important part of securing a system.

Application replacements could definitely be an issue, with regard to accessibility. I am more comfortable with Linux options because of familiarity. I'm less productive with the "leading" applications than I am with their Open Source competition in almost every instance. Inkscape is easier for me than Illustrator, Gimp easier than Photoshop, but again it is due to extreme familiarity. Over a decade of use vs. occasional forays into the Adobe products because a designer I'd hired wanted to go back and forth on designs and was using Adobe products.

Sometimes ease of use is just another way of saying "What I'm used to". I'm just much more used to Linux. I used Windows full time for a little under a year after switching from Amiga in 1995, then switched to Linux, and have been using Linux almost exclusively ever since...I have a Windows partition for games and audio recording. Of course, I've been using it almost exclusively all that time because I strongly prefer it and always have, even when it was really rough around the edges and patching and compiling kernels was just a normal part of being a Linux user. I don't miss those days, but the strength of UNIX/Linux over Windows (to me) stood out even then and even with all of the warts.

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