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Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

mikehadlow.blogspot.com

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Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#81

Post by aianus »

mgirdley wrote: post #8

I loathe these type articles. They're complex arguments to justify the attitude that "only we chosen few (men) with serious tech degrees are gifted enough to do important work in code." Tech is a big, prosperous industry and will be bigger if we act welcoming rather than creating complex arguments to protect our turf. Disclaimer: Am a white male with a CS degree who runs a coding bootcamp.

Where are you getting the gender and race aspects from?

It's considerably easier to get a top-tier CS degree if you're a female or a minority.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#82

Post by teach »

tsunamifury wrote: post #38

" The majority of the population can not learn to code at all, no matter how much training they receive." What an arrogant, false, and self-aggrandizing fiction. Stop over-valuing yourself -- coding isn't some ultra-difficult natural selection process equivalent to winning an NBA Championship. Designing complex services, scaling and maintaining them on a server stack is hard. Developing, training, and shipping a usef…

Coding is, in fact, quite hard.

But that doesn't mean no one can learn it.

Playing the saxophone is quite hard but a lot of students learn how every year, to varying degrees of skill.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#83

Post by heydonovan »

I could not disagree more on the notion that software developers are looked down upon. In my experience, all those developers are treated as omnipotent. Having intelligence on another level. These are the people who wear hoodies in the elevators, and carry around a Macbook, while everyone else is forced to wear business attire (along with faces of misery and non-excitement). These developers are the people that created Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, etc and are known to have lots of cash, but never flaunt it. The same people that are seen headed to the bars with their team, and enjoy the freedom to code from anywhere that has Wi-Fi. Maybe it's just the fact that I've only ever worked at startup companies, but other professions are seen as simple, and clear cut as to how to go about it. "Oh, you're an accountant? Anyone can do that, just go to school, follow the steps, and a degree awaits at the finish line".

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#84

Post by mildbow »

empath75 wrote: post #70
mildbow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random dude who learns basic scripting says he's not good enough to be a software dev -> people chime in disagreement. But, try to actually take them up on the offer and you'll probably find yourself jumping through programming interviews that will scoff at your basic skills. Most of us got started writing little scripts. It's definitely a great start. To say that he could work as a professional programmer now is rid…

The way it usually works is you get a job doing non-primarily coding stuff at a company that has also has programmers, and then get shifted to a development job when people figure out you can code.

Meh.

I've never seen that work for actual software development, but I guess it depends on where you work/what sort of job you do.

I've seen it work for sdets though so who knows.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#85

Post by klunger »

dandare wrote: post #24
mgirdley wrote: post #8

I loathe these type articles. They're complex arguments to justify the attitude that "only we chosen few (men) with serious tech degrees are gifted enough to do important work in code." Tech is a big, prosperous industry and will be bigger if we act welcoming rather than creating complex arguments to protect our turf. Disclaimer: Am a white male with a CS degree who runs a coding bootcamp.

The article arguments for the very opposite. Did your bias prevented you from reading it till the end before commenting? :)

No. The last paragraph of the article: "The majority of the population can not learn to code at all, no matter how much training they receive. I doubt very much if the plethora of quick learn-to-code courses will have any impact at all on the skills shortage, or the problem of unskilled low pay and unemployment. Let’s stop pretending that there are artificial barriers to entry and accept that the main barrier to anyone taking it up is their natural aptitude for it." This is very clearly another (tasteless) "we chosen few" type article.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#86

Post by tfinniga »

paulcole wrote: post #27

There's a big gulf between knowing how to code and working as a professional software developer. I'm a writer for a marketing agency, but I write Google App Scripts, JavaScript, and PHP on a regular basis to automate tasks, try out ideas I have, etc. There's no way I could work as a professional software developer, but I know how to code enough to help make my professional/personal life easier and more fun. Isn't the…

I agree.. I was talking with a CFO about one of his employees, who he called his secret weapon - an accountant with coding skills. The ability to do a regular job plus the ability to code is extremely valuable.

In architecture there is a trend of computational design - if you google for 'designed with grasshopper', you'll see some amazing shapes. The best designs don't come from the best programmers, they come from the best architects and designers who also know how to code.

Maybe it would be possible for them to become professional programmers, but I think it's much more valuable for them to be hybrids. Not every job can benefit from coding skills, but software is eating the world and learning how to code is becoming more and more widely applicable and useful.

That said, I think most people can learn to code, but I don't think _everyone_ can learn how to code. I have worked with a few people in menial jobs that I honestly don't believe could learn how to code. I realize that this is a pedantic assertion about corner cases, but I am a programmer. :)

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#87

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

amargado wrote: post #50
logicallee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no way I could work as a professional software developer, I'll hire you.

Of course he knows he could work as a developer. It is just good old humblebragging.

It's possibly more the case that he'd rather just dip in and out as and when it pleases him. No harm in that of course, I know plenty of people in the same situation who are perfectly capable but wouldn't dream of doing it full time.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#88

Post by yourapostasy »

mildbow wrote: post #59
mattmanser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, yeah, you could work as a professional programmer if you wanted to. You can code. The whole point the article is trying to get across is that a lot of people are simply unable to learn how to code. You've learnt. You CAN become a professional. You just don't realize it. The step you've taken is the hard one. In fact, there's another big dirty secret in programming. A load of professional programmers aren't able…

Random dude who learns basic scripting says he's not good enough to be a software dev -> people chime in disagreement. But, try to actually take them up on the offer and you'll probably find yourself jumping through programming interviews that will scoff at your basic skills. Most of us got started writing little scripts. It's definitely a great start. To say that he could work as a professional programmer now is rid…

The software development market is giant and highly differentiated now. I have personally gone into client sites with plenty of people whose full-time job is doing nothing but scripting, and they're paid as software developers (for their locale) and their work is appreciated (as long as they have good bedside manners with the stakeholders). Granted, these clients are not hot startups, they're nowhere near the leading edge, it often involves tying together CRUD applications instead of more interesting problems, and often they're found in "flyover country" instead of hot metros, but for some people it's the right fit.

Starting and ending one's programming skills with scripting is not a programming sin. For some businesses, there is a real, constant need fulfilled by someone who glues together data and systems with scripts. Personally not my cup of tea, but I recognize it works for some people and organizations; if those circumstances work for you, then that kind of job is nearly a slam dunk.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#89

Post by sotojuan »

dagw wrote: post #57
sotojuan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue that CS grads who do not spend some time learning practical skills on the side are idiots and completely misunderstand the industry they are trying to enter. I agree, but then I realize I live in a bubble. Here and in /r/cscareerquestions, everyone knows to do side projects. In my school, most people don't. Neither do my friends in other schools. They may get one internship but that's the only "practi…

Perhaps we need to stress a bit more practicality in CS curriculum? No, we need to stop telling people who want a career in web development to get a degree in Computer Science. And universities should stop convincing people who really want to be software engineers to study computer science. If you want to work as a structural engineer you'll probably get a degree in structural or mechanical engineering. You don't get…

> No, we need to stop telling people who want a career in web development to get a degree in Computer Science.

Also agree, but we tell people to do it because employers ask for it. I guess it's a cycle, but someone's gotta stop it one day.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#90

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

paulcole wrote: post #71
logicallee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no way I could work as a professional software developer, I'll hire you.

Here's what made me say that (and it wasn't humblebragging): I've worked in a marketing role in a software company and realize that I don't have the understanding of how to contribute in a meaningful way to a team-based professional programming project. My workflow isn't ideal: bang my head against a wall, Google my way out, copy/paste/edit until things work, and move on. Because I'm generally on a mission to get som…

"I'm not sure I'd want to work anywhere that would hire me as a programmer."

To be fair, I am a programmer and I've had exactly the same thought over the years! ;)

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