Bill Gates's new website: The Gates Notes • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates's new website: The Gates Notes

#81

Post by andreyf » Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 4:17 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #66

gcheong wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also take it as an indication that the person saying "he's wrong and pig-headed" is also so entrenched in their viewpoint that they are not likely to examine evidence to the contrary either.

Well in my case I've read a couple books about KIPP looking for evidence that I was wrong, but I didn't find any. The problem is that while KIPP is probably the fastest way to improve kids performance on Things That Can Be Measured, there's a lot of research showing how this approach is really bad for kids. And the pro-KIPP literature doesn't take any of this into account. My problem with Gates specifically is that n…

Could you point me to some further reading about the criticisms of KIPP? I've noticed obvious incompatibilities between their philosophy and the research catalogued by Alfie Kohn, but he obviously doesn't bring up KIPP by name.

Re: Bill Gates's new website: The Gates Notes

#82

Post by pchristensen » Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 4:27 PM UTC

nopinsight wrote: post #48

sofal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I think that a comment section for an author as famous as this would just be a fire-hose blast of noise.

Why don't they implement a point voting system like HN? It's usually quite a good filter.

That's more a function of the community here. No guarantees that billg would have an equally good community. How many "windoze suxx" comments do you think would get voted up on every article?

Re: Bill Gates's new website: The Gates Notes

#83

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 5:31 PM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #81

Alex3917 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in my case I've read a couple books about KIPP looking for evidence that I was wrong, but I didn't find any. The problem is that while KIPP is probably the fastest way to improve kids performance on Things That Can Be Measured, there's a lot of research showing how this approach is really bad for kids. And the pro-KIPP literature doesn't take any of this into account. My problem with Gates specifically is that n…

Could you point me to some further reading about the criticisms of KIPP? I've noticed obvious incompatibilities between their philosophy and the research catalogued by Alfie Kohn, but he obviously doesn't bring up KIPP by name.

As far as I know, there are no real criticisms of this program specifically yet. Most of what I have read from about KIPP comes from Paul Tough, both his series of NYTimes Magazine articles and also his book Whatever It Takes. He's clearly a supporter of KIPP, but in his book he also briefly acknowledges that the ideas underlying the program are not supported by science, unlike many recent initiatives to improve parenting ability. (IIRC the school he writes about in the book is not run by KIPP, but it uses their methodology.)

Re: Bill Gates's new website: The Gates Notes

#84

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 5:32 PM UTC

RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #79

tjogin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm sure he could learn a thing or two from you.

Guys, can I suggest that your points can be made more forcefully by stating a position, and not simply attacking each other? And before replying to this, read this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006657 I've been guilty, and occasionally still am guilty, of exactly what PG is observing. You can disagree without attacking each other, and you can make your points without snide asides. Please.

That wasn't a snipe. My issue with Gates literally is not his ultimate position, but rather the fact his arguments for his position are shallow and lacking nuance.

There is a lot of research out there suggesting that while this program may be a fast way to teach troubled kids to read, there's also a lot of research suggesting that it'll completely destroy their intrinsic motivation to learn and, frankly, to do much of anything in the future. Now maybe there is some special reason why the research doesn't apply in this case, or maybe Gates believes it does apply but the tradeoff is worth it. But most likely I don't think Gates even knows that this research exists, and more generally about this wider branch of theory that suggests that this whole approach is going to be really harmful to these kids.

That's what bothers me, the fact that he's pushing this program really hard without an honest discussion about its merits and drawbacks.

Re: Bill Gates's new website: The Gates Notes

#85

Post by cschep » Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 9:26 PM UTC

profgubler wrote: post #60

cschep wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it seems unlikely because we all think of BillG as a business man and not a hacker. Maybe I should only speak for myself, but the thought of him tinkering away into the early morning on his new site is such a wonderful juxtaposition of my image of him.

But remember, Bill Gates started out as a hacker. He spent his whole high school days learning on a computer his Mom's Club purchased for their kids. He says he was probably one of 50 kids in the country that had that much access to a computer in his High School days.

Yeah totally, I certainly meant no disrespect. The man can hack. It'd be nothing but exciting to hear about him doing more of it.