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Coding is boring, unless

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Re: Coding is boring, unless

#81

Post by dham »

hox wrote: post #68

> A key ingredient here is diversity And all of the employees are white men. Yep. And what evidence is there that this advice is sound? The company hasn't been around for the same length of time that the author says is usually when he gets bored. This is just his rambling train of thoughts on the matter, and what is important to him.

> The company hasn't been around for the same length of time that the author says is usually when he gets bored

This is the problem with some people. They worry so much about the latest technology that they forget to just get stuff done. The company might not even last long enough for engineer turnover. Just do things instead.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#82

Post by mkagenius »

varelse wrote: post #75
hunvreus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most engineers take years to internalize this concept. Fresh out of school programmers will throw themselves at tough problems, get 80% of it done using the latest popular framework before they want to move on. The problem is, the remaining 20% is often what will drive success or failure. As a CTO/manager/team lead, your objective is to mitigate things; keep things interesting enough while getting things done. This u…

I spun my wheels for the first half of my stint at a tech company by being the sort of full-stack developer who never really specialized in anything. During that time, I frequently noted that the engineers who were promoted to the top were specialists in one or more areas important to that company's goals. My managers always told me I was mistaken about that. So eventually I specialized in one of those areas and got…

The project is done when we add the "it works" feature ;)

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#83

Post by throwaway999888 »

walshemj wrote: post #49
TeMPOraL wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to the offices that look like that - I always assumed it's a typical startup setup. Frankly, I probably wouldn't last more than a week in such conditions - I don't respond well to sharing personal space with other people for prolonged periods of time.

And doing serious development on lap tops realy! you need some decent 2 or 3 monitor set ups with a nice i7 workstations with some nicer mechanical keyboards and mice. Yes I know you can get docks etc for laptops but its far more expensive for the same performance.

Just for ergonomics alone you should use a desktop setup over a laptop setup for any prolonged periods. It's as good as impossible to use a laptop and not be hunched over.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#84

Post by tomjen3 »

gotchange wrote: post #56
DennisP wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business perspective shouldn't overlook the direct and indirect costs of engineer turnover.

Aren't these vagabond workers destined to leave anyway? They seem to me that they have this wanderlust to switch jobs and try something new every couple year and get a kick out of it. I don't think that there's much to do to retain them and make them feel excited all the time.

You can start by not inventing insulting nicknames. If you are in an at-will relationship you risk the other part leaving at any time, and you really shouldn't complain about it.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#85

Post by _up »

gotchange wrote: post #12
superplussed wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first year or so of learning Ruby and Rails, I did end up copying and pasting alot from SO. In fact, I think I had a streak of visiting SO every day for at least a year, and that wasn't idle browsing, that was "Oh shit I'm stuck, better hit up SO". So now when I hear claims like this, I just assume it's coming from someone that is new enough to a specific technology that relying on SO is necessary for them.

I rarely visited SO for answers and I went through the novice phase like everyone else but I didn't pick the path of least resistance every time I'm faced with a technical problem, because I have a held belief that you can't accumulate knowledge and expertise if you don't polish your debugging/troubleshooting skills and make yourself go through the painful process of solving technical problems on your own without the…

If you write a paper you also first cite what is state of the art. Before you go into details what Innovation you came up with. So researching SO first, before reinventing the Wheel. Resembles more the scientific way of problem solving. You can also learn a lot by reading and understanding all the different solutions that are often given to a Problem. Your time is better used if you solve new problems or find a better solutions than reinventing the wheel and you also learn as much if not more.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#86

Post by cbsmith »

binwiederhier wrote: post #37

> You can rewrite it from scratch, using a different language or technology. This way, you learn something new rather than patching legacy code. And if your architecture doesn’t allow this yet, you can take steps to improve it, and learn some devops skills in the process. In a professional environment, we develop software not because it's fun, but because it supports the business and/or because it is the business. Th…

> But I feel that the author largely fails to see the business perspective.

I wouldn't say that is necessarily true, given the solutions he proposes. While I do think the article is laden with naïveté, his proposed solutions at least seem to factor in the reality that costly rewrites are a problem. He's finding ways to minimize that cost.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#87

Post by to3m »

benashford wrote: post #71
to3m wrote: post #9

I hope that's somebody's living quarters in the photo, and not their office! I've worked at a couple of offices that felt tightly packed, but they were nothing by comparison to that ;) As a long-term proposition, I'd say that table is suitable for no more than 3. (Not sure what official guidelines are, but I'd say you'd need around 150cm x 75cm, or 5' x 2'6", per person. That gives you enough room for keyboard-laptop…

It's a London based startup, they all look like that until they get some serious funding - and some don't move beyond it even then. If anything, that's above-average.

What do these companies that don't move then spend the money on? Because it doesn't seem to be the salaries ;)

Suggested office square footages: http://www.officespacefinder.co.uk/officespacehow.html - does this place look like they've got even 50 ft^2 per person?! Packing your staff in like battery hens or galley slaves is unhealthy. Those poor people in the photo (assuming it is their office - the question has yet to be answered conclusively) are suffering from terrible ergonomics and cramped working areas, both physical and virtual.

So what if you're this scrappy startup - that sort of thing is a false economy. Your staff are pretty much your only asset.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#88

Post by gotchange »

DennisP wrote: post #66
gotchange wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't these vagabond workers destined to leave anyway? They seem to me that they have this wanderlust to switch jobs and try something new every couple year and get a kick out of it. I don't think that there's much to do to retain them and make them feel excited all the time.

I'm sure there are some who just like changing jobs. But most of the programmers I've known have moved when they could get more money or thought they'd have more fun at the new job. If you're paying well and keeping the fun factor above average, fewer of them will move, since there's a high risk that the new job won't be as good.

I agree but I was just pointing out that it's almost inevitable for some developers to leave the organization for reasons beyond the control of people running the org and therefore it is not worth it to have the org undergo a cultural transformation and turn it into a fraternity just to dissuade them from leaving.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#89

Post by throwaway999888 »

hox wrote: post #68

> A key ingredient here is diversity And all of the employees are white men. Yep. And what evidence is there that this advice is sound? The company hasn't been around for the same length of time that the author says is usually when he gets bored. This is just his rambling train of thoughts on the matter, and what is important to him.

Apparently white men from four different nationalities, at that.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#90

Post by amyjess »

gotchange wrote: post #6
ggambetta wrote: post #2

> Because 50% of my code (hyperbole intended!) was a direct copy/paste of Stack Overflow. And another 40% was a copy/paste from other scripts. Either my colleagues’ scripts or my own. It became repetitive. And there was little creativity or learning involved. How is this even possible? I've never had a job where copying and pasting code would have helped. It blows my mind every time I read this kind of claim, to the…

It always amazes me that there are people out there willing to hire and pay full these type of workers who scour SO for answers without working hard on the problem and expanding their knowledge and expertise in the process. No wonder that our field and profession is suffering from bad image and quality problem when so-called pros copy and paste all the time on the job.

You would probably be horrified to find out that doctors diagnose most common illnesses by looking symptoms up in their med school textbooks. The more tech-savvy doctors now use WebMD.

Or by how most family lawyers do 90% of their work by entering names, etc. into a Word template that was written years ago. Getting my will written was an eye-opening experience: I told my lawyer who I wanted my property going to, who I want it going to if my first choice predeceased me, and who I didn't want my property going to, and he just typed a bunch of names into his template, hit "print", and called a couple of witnesses and a notary into the room so we could all sign it. My living will was even simpler: I told him I wanted one, so he just typed my name into his template and had it printed and signed just like my regular will.

From the customer's perspective, what matters is that their problem gets solved, not how it gets solved.

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