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Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

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Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#81

Post by lisper »

protomyth wrote: post #74
lisper wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see the word "recent" in the church's official position? What do you think "recent" means? But whether or not Ben Carson is a young-earth creationist he is without question a creationist, specifically a six-day creationist: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/ben-carson-creat... Personally, I don't much care about the particular flavor of Ben Carson's wing-nuttery. The fact that he's the leading conten…

Look, I grew up in a mixed SDA/Catholic household and I'm a bit sick of this crap every time we talk about Mormons, SDA, or Catholics. Its spreading FUD, and of course the establishment Republicans are going to throw a damn fit since Jeb is their candidate.

There's a salient difference between 7DAs and Catholics: it is possible to be a Catholic without abandoning science and reason. That's not possible for a 7D-adventist. Biblical literalism is one of the defining characteristics of 7D-adventism. It's the reason for the "Seventh Day" part of the name. I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be doubtful and uncertain, even fearful, of the prospect of having someone who rejects science as president.

BTW, another defining characteristic of 7D-adventism is their belief that Jesus is coming back Real Soon Now. In this, they have common cause with Daesh, who believe they are doing the work of God by helping to bring about the last days. Again, I think it is perfectly reasonable to harbor fear, uncertainty, and doubt over someone like that having their finger on the nuclear button.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#82

Post by nightspirit »

ars wrote: post #77
nightspirit wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The pyramids having anything whatsoever to do with the Exodus is a myth created by Hollywood, it is not a Jewish belief at all. Any source? Google only returns articles about Carson, so it looks like it may be his idea. edit: It seems to be an old story, easily predating both Carson and Hollywood. http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/secret-chambers-grain-s...

Source for which? For grain in general? For Josef supposedly being the one to store it? Or for the pyramids having nothing to do with the Jews being slaves in Egypt?

For Hollywood. You said that associating pyramids with Biblical events was their idea, so I thought that maybe there was some particular movie which spawned this meme.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#83

Post by protomyth »

lisper wrote: post #81
protomyth wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I grew up in a mixed SDA/Catholic household and I'm a bit sick of this crap every time we talk about Mormons, SDA, or Catholics. Its spreading FUD, and of course the establishment Republicans are going to throw a damn fit since Jeb is their candidate.

There's a salient difference between 7DAs and Catholics: it is possible to be a Catholic without abandoning science and reason. That's not possible for a 7D-adventist. Biblical literalism is one of the defining characteristics of 7D-adventism. It's the reason for the "Seventh Day" part of the name. I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be doubtful and uncertain, even fearful, of the prospect of having some…

I am pretty aware of the difference given that I said I grew up in a mixed household. The Seventh Day part of the name is because of the rejection of the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to move the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday (The Lords Day in Catholic terminology) thus they worship on the seventh day. Now I know your just trying to spread FUD.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#84

Post by lisper »

protomyth wrote: post #83
lisper wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a salient difference between 7DAs and Catholics: it is possible to be a Catholic without abandoning science and reason. That's not possible for a 7D-adventist. Biblical literalism is one of the defining characteristics of 7D-adventism. It's the reason for the "Seventh Day" part of the name. I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be doubtful and uncertain, even fearful, of the prospect of having some…

I am pretty aware of the difference given that I said I grew up in a mixed household. The Seventh Day part of the name is because of the rejection of the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to move the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday (The Lords Day in Catholic terminology) thus they worship on the seventh day. Now I know your just trying to spread FUD.

> The Seventh Day part of the name is because of the rejection of the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to move the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday

Nope. At least not according to the 7DA web site.

http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/artic...

The word "Catholic" does not appear in that document. But this does:

God has revealed in Scripture the authentic and historical account of His creative activity. He created the universe, and in a recent six-day creation the Lord made “the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” and rested on the seventh day. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of the work He performed and completed during six literal days that together with the Sabbath constituted the same unit of time that we call a week today. The first man and woman were made in the image of God as the crowning work of Creation, given dominion over the world, and charged with responsibility to care for it. When the world was finished it was “very good,” declaring the glory of God. (Gen. 1-2; 5; 11; Exod. 20:8-11; Ps. 19:1-6; 33:6, 9; 104; Isa. 45:12, 18; Acts 17:24; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2; 11:3; Rev. 10:6; 14:7.)

So does this:

The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour’s coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfillment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ’s coming is near.

If quoting from the church's official web site is spreading FUD, well, so be it.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#85

Post by protomyth »

lisper wrote: post #84
protomyth wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty aware of the difference given that I said I grew up in a mixed household. The Seventh Day part of the name is because of the rejection of the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to move the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday (The Lords Day in Catholic terminology) thus they worship on the seventh day. Now I know your just trying to spread FUD.

> The Seventh Day part of the name is because of the rejection of the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to move the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday Nope. At least not according to the 7DA web site. http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/artic... The word "Catholic" does not appear in that document. But this does: God has revealed in Scripture the authentic and historical account…

I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer:

“Seventh-day Adventists, who profess to be looking for and loving the appearing of Christ, should not follow the course of worldlings. These are no criterion for commandment keepers. Neither should they pattern after first-day Adventists, who refuse to acknowledge the claims of the law of God and trample it under their feet.”—2 Testimonies, 450.

Adventist is the part of the name you are quoting. Seventh Day by the words of the person who named the church distinguished from 1st Day who took Sunday.

Plus, anyone who does not know the reason that Catholics and most of the other Christian churches switched to Sunday won't get the whole seventh day part of the name.

Once again, FUD. All Christian churches expect the imminent return of the Jesus. Its part of the base Christian belief.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#86

Post by lisper »

protomyth wrote: post #85
lisper wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Seventh Day part of the name is because of the rejection of the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to move the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday Nope. At least not according to the 7DA web site. http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/artic... The word "Catholic" does not appear in that document. But this does: God has revealed in Scripture the authentic and historical account…

I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: “Seventh-day Adventists, who profess to be looking for and loving the appearing of Christ, should not follow the course of worldlings. These are no criterion for commandment keepers. Neither should they pattern after first-day Adventists, who refuse to acknowledge the claims of the law of God and trample it under their feet.”—2 Testimonies, 450. Adventist is th…

> I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer:

I don't see how that quote in any way contradicts what I said: the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1, and the "fact" that God rested on the seventh day.

> All Christian churches expect the imminent return of the Jesus.

Not true. All Christian churches expect the eventual return of Jesus, not His imminent return. There's a big, big difference.

> the reason that Catholics and most of the other Christian churches switched to Sunday

Well, the early Christians did it ostensibly because Jesus was crucified on a Sunday. But the real reason was to distinguish themselves from Judaism. And by the time there were "other" Christian churches the tradition had already been established for 1500 years or so.

> Once again, FUD.

No, these are salient issues for a presidential candidate. Someone who believes in the imminent return of Jesus is going to have a very different approach to long-term problems like climate change than someone who thinks Jesus may not be coming back for a long, long time (or at all). And someone who believes in the inerrancy of the Bible over science is going to have a very different approach to, well, just about everything.

7DA is a fundamentalist, apocalyptic religion. It's fundamentalist because they believe in Biblical inerrancy (that's what fundamentalist means) and it's apocalyptic because they believe Jesus is coming Real Soon Now. That's not FUD, those are simply facts. And they are facts that the American people ought to know if they are going to vote for a 7DA.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#87

Post by protomyth »

lisper wrote: post #86
protomyth wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: “Seventh-day Adventists, who profess to be looking for and loving the appearing of Christ, should not follow the course of worldlings. These are no criterion for commandment keepers. Neither should they pattern after first-day Adventists, who refuse to acknowledge the claims of the law of God and trample it under their feet.”—2 Testimonies, 450. Adventist is th…

> I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: I don't see how that quote in any way contradicts what I said: the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1, and the "fact" that God rested on the seventh day. > All Christian churches expect the imminent return of the Jesus. Not true. All Ch…

> Well, the early Christians did it ostensibly because Jesus was crucified on a Sunday. But the real reason was to distinguish themselves from Judaism. And by the time there were "other" Christian churches the tradition had already been established for 1500 years or so.

That's not even close to the truth. Look it up, even the Catholics admit it was to increase members by attracting the Romans of the time.

> don't see how that quote in any way contradicts what I said: the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism"

Its does contradict what was meant and is a quote from the person who named the religion.

I'm done, you are spreading untruths about a religion to discredit people.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#88

Post by dragonwriter »

lisper wrote: post #86
protomyth wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: “Seventh-day Adventists, who profess to be looking for and loving the appearing of Christ, should not follow the course of worldlings. These are no criterion for commandment keepers. Neither should they pattern after first-day Adventists, who refuse to acknowledge the claims of the law of God and trample it under their feet.”—2 Testimonies, 450. Adventist is th…

> I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: I don't see how that quote in any way contradicts what I said: the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1, and the "fact" that God rested on the seventh day. > All Christian churches expect the imminent return of the Jesus. Not true. All Ch…

> the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1

"literalism" and "inerrantism" are two different things (well, more than that, since there are two different doctrines called "inerrancy", one Protestant and one Catholic, and they have substantially different substance), and what you refer to here appears to be more "literalism" than "inerrancy", since "inerrancy" (in the Protestant form; the Catholic form addresses moral truths but not factual accuracy) only holds that what the Bible says is accurate when read properly, but is compatible with metaphorical readings, while literalism layers on the additional requirement that the truth is in a strictly literal reading.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#89

Post by lisper »

protomyth wrote: post #87
lisper wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: I don't see how that quote in any way contradicts what I said: the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1, and the "fact" that God rested on the seventh day. > All Christian churches expect the imminent return of the Jesus. Not true. All Ch…

> Well, the early Christians did it ostensibly because Jesus was crucified on a Sunday. But the real reason was to distinguish themselves from Judaism. And by the time there were "other" Christian churches the tradition had already been established for 1500 years or so. That's not even close to the truth. Look it up, even the Catholics admit it was to increase members by attracting the Romans of the time. > don't see…

> That's not even close to the truth. Look it up

I did. Reliable information about this is hard to find. But among other sources, I found this:

http://www.bible.ca/7-pope-changed.htm

> even the Catholics admit it was to increase members by attracting the Romans of the time

Again, I don't see how this contradicts what I said. Basically, it was a marketing ploy.

> Its does contradict what was meant

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

> I'm done

Let's hope.

Re: Why do we still not know what's inside the pyramids?

#90

Post by lisper »

dragonwriter wrote: post #88
lisper wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll quote Ellen White the prophet of SDA and its namer: I don't see how that quote in any way contradicts what I said: the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1, and the "fact" that God rested on the seventh day. > All Christian churches expect the imminent return of the Jesus. Not true. All Ch…

> the "seventh day" part of "seventh day adventism" derives from a belief in Biblical inerrancy, specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1 "literalism" and "inerrantism" are two different things (well, more than that, since there are two different doctrines called "inerrancy", one Protestant and one Catholic, and they have substantially different substance), and what you refer to here appea…

Yes, I know. That's why I elaborated with "specifically the literal truth of the story of Creation in Genesis 1". I don't know if 7DAs are literalists w.r.t. the rest of the Bible (their official doctrine doesn't say) but they are quite specific about this point:

"[God] created the universe, and in a recent six-day creation the Lord made “the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” and rested on the seventh day. Thus He established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial of the work He performed and completed during six literal days that together with the Sabbath constituted the same unit of time that we call a week today."

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