Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#81

Post by chaqke » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

ealexhudson wrote: post #39

Retric wrote: post #10

Survivorship bias is a really important caveat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias Many cheap brick buildings from 100 years ago are gone, where the high quality ones are more likely to remain. Also, steel Lintel are often used over windows in brick buildings. They don't last as long, but are fine for cheap construction that is not expected to last. AKA the kinds of building that are unlikely to be aroun…

My last house was built in ~1936. It was cheap for the time, but the entire estate of houses it sat in was complete - virtually nothing had been removed. The form of the buildings had changed somewhat (extension for bathroom instead of toilet in the garden), but the brick walls were incredible and the internal timberwork (joists, frames, etc.) was all hardwood of a quality that would be very expensive now. My current…

There's a saying that goes something like: "Any idiot can build a bridge. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that is just strong enough to stand given the weight it's meant to bear".

A lot of older structural "engineering" was figuring out how much material was required, then multiplying it by 80 just in case.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#82

Post by analog31 » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:05 PM UTC

I wonder if the decline of labor unions is a factor, or some similar thing that affects the willingness of people to make a career of a skilled trade.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#83

Post by finnh » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:07 PM UTC

everyone wrote: post #78

pjc50 wrote: post #54

> "Part of the blame, I feel, rests at the feet of the Modernist movement — a movement that idealized the cube and disdained roof overhangs. Modernist architects were ignorant of the entire concept of moisture management. The fact that thousands of Modernist buildings suffered water entry problems did little to deter architects from falling in love with Modernism and Brutalism. This tragic love affair contributed to…

This was a good article but I think the authors assignment of blame is misplaced. In my opinion the reason contemporary brick construction is not up to par with 100 year old brick construction is the same reason contemporary washing machines are not up to the standard of washing machines 100 years ago: The emphasis in making things now is on speed and cheapness, the emphasis 100 years ago was on quality. The college…

I will gladly trade a 100 year old washing machine (rusty and hand-powered, I assume) for a Miele.

I'm sure you have an argument here, but I don't see how washing machines further it.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#84

Post by greggyb » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:09 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #69

dpark wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the brick actually holding up the building? This was my thought as well. The modern building is likely just using the brick as veneer, even if it is full-thickness brick. It's likely concrete walls with brick layered over it. The fact that the brickwork is poorly done likely doesn't matter except aesthetically. If all the brick fell off the building would still be standing. The newer building is indeed ugly, and…

Wouldn't you expect brick for ornamental purposes to look prettier than brick used for functional purposes?

No, you'd expect brick for ornamental purposes to look prettier than what it's covering.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#85

Post by tobico » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:11 PM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #67

ealexhudson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last house was built in ~1936. It was cheap for the time, but the entire estate of houses it sat in was complete - virtually nothing had been removed. The form of the buildings had changed somewhat (extension for bathroom instead of toilet in the garden), but the brick walls were incredible and the internal timberwork (joists, frames, etc.) was all hardwood of a quality that would be very expensive now. My current…

I think one thing is buildings are now are built closer to their required engineering tolerances. In the past many building were massively over engineered, while modern buildings seem to be built for their exact expected lifespan. The one thing I really hate about most modern buildings here in Australia is the ceiling height has been reduced. A lot of modern buildings have ceiling heights around 7’ while old building…

Shorter ceilings are better for climate control, though. No need to heat up a bunch of air that just floats around over your head.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#86

Post by beachstartup » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:15 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #56

afarrell wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought brick was more expensive today due to labor costs and that steel and glass were comparatively cheap. Is this false?

Generally true. The relative cost of wood vs brick also varies from country to country depending on local availability.

wood is definitely cheaper than brick but i have a hard time believing that a brick building will be more expensive than one made of steel and glass. the architecture, engineering, transport, etc. is where most of the cost comes from, not the building materials.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#87

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:17 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #10

Survivorship bias is a really important caveat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias Many cheap brick buildings from 100 years ago are gone, where the high quality ones are more likely to remain. Also, steel Lintel are often used over windows in brick buildings. They don't last as long, but are fine for cheap construction that is not expected to last. AKA the kinds of building that are unlikely to be aroun…

[deleted]

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#88

Post by feedjoelpie » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:19 PM UTC

tobico wrote: post #85

danieltillett wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one thing is buildings are now are built closer to their required engineering tolerances. In the past many building were massively over engineered, while modern buildings seem to be built for their exact expected lifespan. The one thing I really hate about most modern buildings here in Australia is the ceiling height has been reduced. A lot of modern buildings have ceiling heights around 7’ while old building…

Shorter ceilings are better for climate control, though. No need to heat up a bunch of air that just floats around over your head.

This is only true if your climate makes it more expensive to heat the building than to cool it.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#89

Post by nikatwork » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:20 PM UTC

computer wrote: post #73

danieltillett wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one thing is buildings are now are built closer to their required engineering tolerances. In the past many building were massively over engineered, while modern buildings seem to be built for their exact expected lifespan. The one thing I really hate about most modern buildings here in Australia is the ceiling height has been reduced. A lot of modern buildings have ceiling heights around 7’ while old building…

Ceiling heights of 7 feet? Are you sure? Many tall people would only just fit upright...

7' is accurate for many new Housing Estate houses eg AV Jennings. The buildings all look similar except for roof color. It's very disorientating.

My house is 1860s with a 12' ceiling. Those other places feel like claustrophobic rabbit holes in comparison.

Low ceilings minimize material costs and maximize profits.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#90

Post by jonnathanson » Fri, Nov 06, 2015, 11:21 PM UTC

fweespeech wrote: post #74

danieltillett wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one thing is buildings are now are built closer to their required engineering tolerances. In the past many building were massively over engineered, while modern buildings seem to be built for their exact expected lifespan. The one thing I really hate about most modern buildings here in Australia is the ceiling height has been reduced. A lot of modern buildings have ceiling heights around 7’ while old building…

Are you 100% sure its 7'? There are a number of people [if small percentage wise] that are 7'.

Seriously. And it's not just the seven-footers who'd have issues. I'm 6'3, and I'd feel claustrophobic in a home with 7' ceilings. I'm above average in height, but, like, not wildly so. I certainly don't think I'm an outlier or anything.