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Staffpad: a new class of notation app

staffpad.net

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Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#81
post #12

Just wondering - wouldn't it be easier, not only for music notation but also for math and other scientific notation, if there was an on-screen keyboard custom-built for this very purpose with the required symbols and movement keys? After all, why require a stylus and why sketch the characters when you can just as easily type (actually, typing may turn out to be a much faster input method). Is there a real benefit to…

What you're describing is more or less how existing programs work. For example, here is a screenshot of Sibelius:

http://img.informer.com/screenshots/5045/5045272_3.jpg

Notice that "keypad" in the bottom right corner. That's the "on-screen custom keyboard" you're talking about.

But this isn't very convenient:

1. There are a lot of symbols. So many that the keyboard is divided up into six sub-keyboards. Unless you know the program well, it's a bit of a mystery where exactly to find the right symbol.

2. And it's actually more complicated than that because some of the symbols are actually modifiers of other symbols. For several of the symbols you see (sharp, natural, flat, dot, tie) you can't actually draw them independently, they only exist as attachments to another note. So the keypad works differently when you are dealing with those symbols.

3. Plenty of marks aren't even covered by the keypad and its six panels. For those you have to go searching in the numerous other menus in the app. You start getting a Microsoft Word-like problem: how do you design menu bars that show all the options without taking up the whole screen.

I really think it would be easier to draw what you mean -- if the app is actually good at recognizing what you mean.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#83

Holy shit, this is amazing. For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with. This makes the process literally ten times easier, and so much more fun to use - and the MP3 export? Amazing. I'm actually considering using Windows because of this and the new hardware. If you had told me that two days ago I an…

never typed music... but i can't bring myself to believe there is no easy way to enter a note with 104 keys keyboard right in front of you... is it really that bad?

i would imagine one keystroke per note. maybe one modifier for things like several octaves out.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#84
I've been working on an iPad app in a similar direction, though with a different end goal. As I'm sure the founders of this company can relate, I've found Sibelius and Finale incredibly frustrating to use, especially for anything resembling experimentation. However, I also feel that sheet music is generally incompatible with modern popular music. (See the Aphex Twin joke below!) Much of my favorite rock and electronic music has syncopation, changing meters, pitch bending, and a general fluidity about it that's incompatible with the rigidity of staff notation. Plus, staff notation is very difficult to read.

With my project, I'm hoping to bring some of that flexibility back into the compositional process. In short, it's an infinite canvas with time on the x-axis and pitch on the y-axis that you can simply paint with your fingers. You're not constrained by key signature, time signature, or note length, though there are snapping tools to help with that if you need it. It's meant more as a tool to take musical "notes" than as something that can produce a clean final product. As someone who doesn't play the guitar very well (yet), I'm looking forward to using it to experiment with guitar solos.

Here's an early demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra8OvnoxKQw

I hope to release it in the next few months, though we all know how that goes! iPad Pencil support is definitely something I want to do as well.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#85

As far as I'm concerned, this is world-changing technology - a (seemingly?) easy to use, natural-looking, efficient data-entry mechanism that looks like something from the future. That is an absolutely fantastic demo - I was hooked on the background-video within 3 seconds, and found myself wishing the MP3 would play when he was exporting it at the end. Bravo.

It's exactly what I've wanted ever since I tried to use Finale notepad so many years ago.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#86

Holy shit, this is amazing. For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with. This makes the process literally ten times easier, and so much more fun to use - and the MP3 export? Amazing. I'm actually considering using Windows because of this and the new hardware. If you had told me that two days ago I an…

I have a bit of experience with transcription/engraving software. I completely agree that the process tends to be slow and frustrating, but I'm not sure if this really solves the problems. This looks like it could be nice for rapid prototyping, but I suspect it would be at least as equally frustrating if you're trying to get a professional end result where you have absolute control over everything.

My favorite engraving software is LilyPond, which is similar to LaTeX in that it's just a plain text language that gets rendered. There is no GUI, although there are several "IDEs" that I have tried (they seem to be mostly useless beyond syntax highlighting, templates, and a live preview). And like LaTeX, it is often extremely frustrating, and the learning curve is extremely steep. But I think I prefer it because, once you get some experience using it, it is (mostly) very predictable and gives very fine-grained control.

http://www.lilypond.org/

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#87

I've been working on an iPad app in a similar direction, though with a different end goal. As I'm sure the founders of this company can relate, I've found Sibelius and Finale incredibly frustrating to use, especially for anything resembling experimentation. However, I also feel that sheet music is generally incompatible with modern popular music. (See the Aphex Twin joke below!) Much of my favorite rock and electroni…

I'd like to wish you the best in your project, and mention that as a huge fan of modern drum & bass and other EDM forms, plus as a longtime guitar player, I believe you're actually working in a space that lacks such a tool. The video makes me smile. That's a nifty pocket resource to me!

Just going to spit-ball a couple thoughts based on my experiences and your write-up!

I've been using Blend.io to share my Ableton Live projects with others online (via Dropbox). This is helpful because settings are exported - do you think that in time you might have a mechanism in the program to list & chart out the settings for a synth, say like Massive? Could be a whole can of worms, but important stuff to recall going forward when taking notes.

As for guitar solos, I think you could use one of the blues Kings for material in testing, either B.B. King or Freddie King, depending on how much pitch bending or note rapidity you'd be interested in. If you want to get extreme, Dimebag Darrell of Pantera had some crazy harmonic & Floyd Rose "dive-bomb" tricks he'd use that might test capability!

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#88

I've been working on an iPad app in a similar direction, though with a different end goal. As I'm sure the founders of this company can relate, I've found Sibelius and Finale incredibly frustrating to use, especially for anything resembling experimentation. However, I also feel that sheet music is generally incompatible with modern popular music. (See the Aphex Twin joke below!) Much of my favorite rock and electroni…

I'd like to wish you the best in your project, and mention that as a huge fan of modern drum & bass and other EDM forms, plus as a longtime guitar player, I believe you're actually working in a space that lacks such a tool. The video makes me smile. That's a nifty pocket resource to me! Just going to spit-ball a couple thoughts based on my experiences and your write-up! I've been using Blend.io to share my Ableton Li…

Thanks for the thoughts!

The initial offering will be pretty sandboxed from the rest of the production toolchain; I'm aiming for an MVP with the simple goal of "sketch music quickly". So there won't be much to offer in terms of interacting with other software.

After that, however, anything is up for grabs. Eventually, I'd love to add features that would make it an invaluable music production tool, not just a note-taking app. Under the hood, each instrumental layer in my app has a set of "traits" (volume, vibrato, expression, etc.) that get matched to the appropriate settings in the output instrument if they exist. Only the settings that exist in the output instrument are used; the rest are ignored. For the time being, these traits are only used internally for the built-in MIDI synth. But if I'm understanding you correctly, this means that it should be pretty simple to add arbitrary traits for outside instruments. And eventually, when I add Audiobus and/or MIDI-out support, it should be possible to play the track directly through the synth! (But that's a bit into the future... need to focus! Need to focus!)

Thanks for the guitar solo tips, I will definitely be using some of those!

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#89

When I saw this my first thought was: We need something like that for Math / technical drawing. I can understand that music is a good first application of this technology, but entering mathematical and engineering-related content through such an interface could be a huge deal as well.

I've been using Xournal for notes, problem sets, etc. for the last 5 years. It doesn't do handwriting recognition, etc., but I find that this is a good thing -- that way I don't ever have to go back and fix recognition errors, and unless you are preparing something for publication, typesetting math is a waste of time.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#90

Now that Apple Pencil exists, I hope they consider a port. This looks amazing but I just don't think any app could convince me to buy a Windows machine.

The iPad Pro doesn't not have palm detection, as far as I know. This is kind of a deal breaker to port the app.
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